Workshop welder

Ali

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Looking to get a welder for our workshop to fix bits and bobs but also dabble in making things for around the place.
Only ever used a stick welder but everyone says use mig.
Workshop power is off a 6kv generator
Open to suggestions and advice
 

TheTallGuy

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
Running from a lower power genny would lead to it ideally needing to be an inverter welder as the "buzz box"/transformer type welders often struggle due to the genny/AVR not reacting quickly enough to the load swings. When striking an arc as the welder acts as a near short circuit to the genny - so the output voltage drops, which then drops the arc voltage and current and the arc fails. Inverter welders are able to compensate to a degree for this. 6kVA will limit you to around 140A welding current assuming an inverter welder - if you are running nothing else at the same time.

Personally I have a multi function machine that does both MIG and stick welding. If I am in the workshop I will tend to use MIG as I find I get better results - if I am outside then ARC is better/easier as I don't have to lug the gas bottle around and the breeze blowing the gas away from the weld is less of an issue.

@Welding Supplies Direct can probably offer some advice as well
 
Hi Ali, We have a couple suggestions that might be of some use.

An Oxford MIGmaker 180-1 will run off a 6kVA generator & will also run off a 13A plug. Oxfords are, in my opinion, the best choice for farmers as they last forever & have 2 year warranty, 5 year warranty on the transformer & 20 year guaranteed parts availability (in the rare chance that anything does happen to the machine) They come complete with Genuine Binzel torch & argon regulator. Usually take a few days to build but at the moment there are some stock so could be sent out to you ASAP.

Otherwise, for a Stick option we have the TFF Parweld XTI 160 MMA Package - Brilliant little inverter welder, 1 year warranty, comes with everything you need (Auto darkening helmet, gauntlets, wire brush, chipping hammer & Either Oerlikon Overcord E Welding rods or Bohler Welding Rods) Good option for workshop welding in my opinion and it's just £199 + VAT inc Free delivery.

Hope those help, if you fancy having a chat about any queries you might have to do with which welders you can run off what we'd be happy to do what we can, no obligation. 0800 121 8802.

Regards, Tom - WSD
 

ACEngineering

Member
Location
Oxon
Hi Ali, We have a couple suggestions that might be of some use.

An Oxford MIGmaker 180-1 will run off a 6kVA generator & will also run off a 13A plug. Oxfords are, in my opinion, the best choice for farmers as they last forever & have 2 year warranty, 5 year warranty on the transformer & 20 year guaranteed parts availability (in the rare chance that anything does happen to the machine) They come complete with Genuine Binzel torch & argon regulator. Usually take a few days to build but at the moment there are some stock so could be sent out to you ASAP.

Otherwise, for a Stick option we have the TFF Parweld XTI 160 MMA Package - Brilliant little inverter welder, 1 year warranty, comes with everything you need (Auto darkening helmet, gauntlets, wire brush, chipping hammer & Either Oerlikon Overcord E Welding rods or Bohler Welding Rods) Good option for workshop welding in my opinion and it's just £199 + VAT inc Free delivery.

Hope those help, if you fancy having a chat about any queries you might have to do with which welders you can run off what we'd be happy to do what we can, no obligation. 0800 121 8802.

Regards, Tom - WSD

how thick can you weld with that 180 mig then?
 

TheTallGuy

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
how thick can you weld with that 180 mig then?
It depends on quite a few factors such as the materials used and the prep work and welding techniques. In my experience (as an amateur), for a butt joint on mild steel with just a straight weld I would expect somewhere around 6mm would be the limit. Using Vs and multi-layering or weaving, etc. can double this (or more), but it takes a bit of practice.
 

El arado

Member
Location
Murcia. Spain
Hi Ali, We have a couple suggestions that might be of some use.

An Oxford MIGmaker 180-1 will run off a 6kVA generator & will also run off a 13A plug. Oxfords are, in my opinion, the best choice for farmers as they last forever & have 2 year warranty, 5 year warranty on the transformer & 20 year guaranteed parts availability (in the rare chance that anything does happen to the machine) They come complete with Genuine Binzel torch & argon regulator. Usually take a few days to build but at the moment there are some stock so could be sent out to you ASAP.

Otherwise, for a Stick option we have the TFF Parweld XTI 160 MMA Package - Brilliant little inverter welder, 1 year warranty, comes with everything you need (Auto darkening helmet, gauntlets, wire brush, chipping hammer & Either Oerlikon Overcord E Welding rods or Bohler Welding Rods) Good option for workshop welding in my opinion and it's just £199 + VAT inc Free delivery.

Hope those help, if you fancy having a chat about any queries you might have to do with which welders you can run off what we'd be happy to do what we can, no obligation. 0800 121 8802.

Regards, Tom - WSD

Tom......Its about time you treated these people with more respect - to use "in my opinion" is a typical salesman's "line". What you do not seem to realise is that these people are farmers first and dam good engineers second; many have to learn how to repair/modify and keep the tack running as a necessity.
Lets look at the Oxford MIGmaker 180-1, firstly in your ad' you have missed vital information, the OCV, this is an important fact and is directly related to the thickness of material weld capacity. Second, the picture is of a machine with 24 output voltage settings - 6 fine & 4 course. Thirdly the size of the transformer lam's and stack would indicate a 140A (at a respectable duty cycle) machine - 15-20 years ago manufacturer's started to play "the numbers game", yes, you can get 180a out of a 140A machine, but for how long....?. Fourthly, a "genuine Binzel" torch is no great selling feature, if you want a good reliable, robust torch then you should recommend Tregaskiss or Tweeco - the running costs are similar.
The TFF Parweld is just another inverter made in China - similar to other branded machines - yes it will burn a few sticks, but what thickness will it safely weld.......? Yet again missing fundamental information.
I have asked you about a Plasma cutter, no answer!!!! Equally nowhere have I seen any information offered regarding the dangers of plasma cutting, there is a thread on TFF regarding safety equipment - where is your input? It is your responsibility as a professional welding distributor to offer sound realistic advice on all aspects connected with your industry and the end-users real needs, "in my opinion" (lol) you fall short!!
The TallGuy has put forward very constructive and sensible information.
I'll probably get "booted" for this, but "IMO" (PMSL) do it properly or not at all!
 

Blackleg

Member
Location
Hereford
Tom......Its about time you treated these people with more respect - to use "in my opinion" is a typical salesman's "line". What you do not seem to realise is that these people are farmers first and dam good engineers second; many have to learn how to repair/modify and keep the tack running as a necessity.
Lets look at the Oxford MIGmaker 180-1, firstly in your ad' you have missed vital information, the OCV, this is an important fact and is directly related to the thickness of material weld capacity. Second, the picture is of a machine with 24 output voltage settings - 6 fine & 4 course. Thirdly the size of the transformer lam's and stack would indicate a 140A (at a respectable duty cycle) machine - 15-20 years ago manufacturer's started to play "the numbers game", yes, you can get 180a out of a 140A machine, but for how long....?. Fourthly, a "genuine Binzel" torch is no great selling feature, if you want a good reliable, robust torch then you should recommend Tregaskiss or Tweeco - the running costs are similar.
The TFF Parweld is just another inverter made in China - similar to other branded machines - yes it will burn a few sticks, but what thickness will it safely weld.......? Yet again missing fundamental information.
I have asked you about a Plasma cutter, no answer!!!! Equally nowhere have I seen any information offered regarding the dangers of plasma cutting, there is a thread on TFF regarding safety equipment - where is your input? It is your responsibility as a professional welding distributor to offer sound realistic advice on all aspects connected with your industry and the end-users real needs, "in my opinion" (lol) you fall short!!
The TallGuy has put forward very constructive and sensible information.
I'll probably get "booted" for this, but "IMO" (PMSL) do it properly or not at all!



Blimey!


He was asked to step in on a thread with what he's got to offer and he did. I don't think he over sold anything.

It seems to me you're trying to pull Tom apart on technical details that are irrelevant:


Duty cycles are important I'll give you that but the description given in the links are honest and consistent with every other advert for welding plant on the market.

OCV, (that's Open Circuit Voltage for those who read this and don't know) is restricted to 80 volts by law so the operator doesn't get fried if there's a fault, it used to be 100 volts but now it's not. It makes not a sh1t of difference to the quality of the weld or the capacity of the machine, I defy you to buy a new welder with an OCV of greater than 80v in the EU today.

24 output settings, again it makes no odds how the 180 amps are divided within reason and I think 24 sounds about right. Why did you pick up on this point?

I've never heard of the torches you mentioned. I reckon the reason that "genuine Binzel torch" was quoted is to reassure potential customers that they're not getting a cheap Chinese copy of a Binzel torch that are plaguing eBay. There's nothing wrong with a Binzel torch - I run one on my Fronius and that's a £6k welder.

I don't own an Oxford welder but I'd buy one tomorrow if I needed a single phase transformer based MIG, it'd be a toss up between an Oxford and a Portamig. They both carry a pedigree and both have a waiting time because they need to be built (here in the UK by the people you're buying them from).


As for Parweld....

I wouldn't buy one.

I'm a welder by trade, you're right in what you say they're a generic inverter stick welder. I would (I did/I do) spend a bit more money on a higher specced welder.

But not everyone does this for a living and people need to make choices based on priorities and budgets. I wouldn't buy a Parweld but I'd recommend one (along with other generic inverters) to a bloke who doesn't need to run it all day every day and doesn't want to spend a fortune on a Fronius/Kemppi/Esab...... etc etc


You don't need to get booted for you post El arado but you do need to be held to account for being pedantic and unhelpful.

I don't know Tom, I've never done business with him or anyone else on here. I rarely post, I have no interest to declare with Oxford/Portamig/Parweld...

Your post pee'd me off to be fair, alright he's a salesman but he offered good honest advice and he didn't deserve your poisoned and scathing response.


All the best,

Jim
 

El arado

Member
Location
Murcia. Spain
Blimey!


He was asked to step in on a thread with what he's got to offer and he did. I don't think he over sold anything.

It seems to me you're trying to pull Tom apart on technical details that are irrelevant:


Duty cycles are important I'll give you that but the description given in the links are honest and consistent with every other advert for welding plant on the market.

OCV, (that's Open Circuit Voltage for those who read this and don't know) is restricted to 80 volts by law so the operator doesn't get fried if there's a fault, it used to be 100 volts but now it's not. It makes not a sh1t of difference to the quality of the weld or the capacity of the machine, I defy you to buy a new welder with an OCV of greater than 80v in the EU today.

24 output settings, again it makes no odds how the 180 amps are divided within reason and I think 24 sounds about right. Why did you pick up on this point?

I've never heard of the torches you mentioned. I reckon the reason that "genuine Binzel torch" was quoted is to reassure potential customers that they're not getting a cheap Chinese copy of a Binzel torch that are plaguing eBay. There's nothing wrong with a Binzel torch - I run one on my Fronius and that's a £6k welder.

I don't own an Oxford welder but I'd buy one tomorrow if I needed a single phase transformer based MIG, it'd be a toss up between an Oxford and a Portamig. They both carry a pedigree and both have a waiting time because they need to be built (here in the UK by the people you're buying them from).


As for Parweld....

I wouldn't buy one.

I'm a welder by trade, you're right in what you say they're a generic inverter stick welder. I would (I did/I do) spend a bit more money on a higher specced welder.

But not everyone does this for a living and people need to make choices based on priorities and budgets. I wouldn't buy a Parweld but I'd recommend one (along with other generic inverters) to a bloke who doesn't need to run it all day every day and doesn't want to spend a fortune on a Fronius/Kemppi/Esab...... etc etc


You don't need to get booted for you post El arado but you do need to be held to account for being pedantic and unhelpful.

I don't know Tom, I've never done business with him or anyone else on here. I rarely post, I have no interest to declare with Oxford/Portamig/Parweld...

Your post pee'd me off to be fair, alright he's a salesman but he offered good honest advice and he didn't deserve your poisoned and scathing response.


All the best,

Jim
" It seems to me you're trying to pull Tom apart on technical details that are irrelevant" - totally wrong, the points I made are very relavant. OCV, VERY IMPORTANT on a MIG M/C, it is directly related to the actual penetration of the weld bead, usually the smaller m/c's have a lower OCV and are not suitable for welding thicker materials. The OCV you talk about is solely related to MMA/TIG m/c's, commonly known as "droopers", e.g., high OCV to strike the arc then dropping dramatically once the arc is established. The ultimate welding voltage depends on the length of the arc.
Re the voltage settings, if you view Tom's ad' you will see the picture of an Oxford MIGmaker with 24 voltage settings, yet the spec' states 6! If you had purchased based on the ad, you'd be a little "p1ssed of" if you were expecting a m/c with 24 positions.
Re "I've never heard of the torches you mentioned" ....when Binzel are as big, as reliable, as robust and last as long as Tweeco then they can say they make good torches! Tregaskiss have been around for 20 yrs plus, a very good alternative to Tweeco. I am most surprised that as a welder you have not heard of these brands!
Re Parweld equipment, don't know why you wouldn't buy one, they are of a reasonable standard, very similar to the rest of the stuff exiting China. At least its not Italian!
Oxford/Portamig - very similar, nothing to write home about. At least they are built in UK.
Not pulling Tom apart, just pointing out certain shortfalls in his post.
At least you purchased a good welder, which because of the design will probably last your lifetime.
I will accept your apology for your inept comments at the end of your post.
 

Blackleg

Member
Location
Hereford
" OCV, VERY IMPORTANT on a MIG M/C, it is directly related to the actual penetration of the weld bead, usually the smaller m/c's have a lower OCV and are not suitable for welding thicker materials"

Are you getting confused with "Inductance"

OCV Open Circuit Voltage is the voltage present before the arc is struck, once you strike the arc and commence welding there is no OCV because it's not an open circuit. When the arc is struck you then get your welding parameters typically 18-26 volts for dip transfer and 26 volts plus when in spray (off the top of my head when running 1mm wire).

The only time OCV can be problematic to a welder is when stick welding, it can be hard to strike an arc with some cellulosic electrodes with a low OCV.



" The ultimate welding voltage depends on the length of the arc."

No it doesn't, the MIG process is constant voltage i.e. the "self adjusting arc".

That would be true if you were stick welding as it's a constant current power source.

I think you're getting muddled up again, here's a link so you can learn some stuff.
http://lincolnelectric.com/en-us/su...stant-current-vs-constant-coltage-output.aspx



"Re "I've never heard of the torches you mentioned" ....when Binzel are as big, as reliable, as robust and last as long as Tweeco then they can say they make good torches! Tregaskiss have been around for 20 yrs plus, a very good alternative to Tweeco. I am most surprised that as a welder you have not heard of these brands!"

No I'd never heard of them, I had a Google though and they look like good kit. My local suppliers sell Binzel torches and associated bits at really good prices so I'll stick with what I've got because it's also good kit.


"Re Parweld equipment, don't know why you wouldn't buy one."

I told you, read my post.

"very similar to the rest of the stuff exiting China. At least its not Italian!"

http://www.mosa.it/ Some of the best generator welders available.



"I will accept your apology for your inept comments at the end of your post."

That's very gracious of you.


Jim
 

El arado

Member
Location
Murcia. Spain
I must admit, I am PMSL-ing; I have no wish to be condescending, but, when people quote such obvious nonsense with such authority it makes me smile!
"Are you getting confused with "Inductance"
&
"No it doesn't, the MIG process is constant voltage i.e. the "self adjusting arc".
That would be true if you were stick welding as it's a constant current power source.
I think you're getting muddled up again, here's a link so you can learn some stuff."


I suggest you actually read the information given in your link http://lincolnelectric.com/en-us/su...stant-current-vs-constant-coltage-output.aspx, it is accurate and correct.

You have no idea who you are talking too!
 

El arado

Member
Location
Murcia. Spain
ACEngineering is correct, but there is another aspect. During the cutting process, the metal is vaporised - contained in the fume are Oxides of Nitrogen (not Nitrous Oxide - Laughing Gas), and numerous other "nasty" gases (depends on the material being cut). Also there is particle matter, which, once in your lungs is difficult to remove.
It is a very dangerous process, and safety masks should be worn at all times - even for a very short cut. Remember "Farmers Lung"!
 

El arado

Member
Location
Murcia. Spain
When buying a welder you must consider what you want to do with it, e.g. what thickness of material you want to weld? how long will you be welding for? etc. Whilst a MIG is versatile and easy to use, power output limits what you can weld in a single pass. You can weld thicker sections but you must turn the power up a little (to get the penetration) and multiple pass. Then you are faced with the Duty Cycle problem, the higher the duty cycle the less time you will spend twiddling your thumbs waiting for the welder to cool down. The 6kVA generator the OP has will allow him to connect a decent 200A MIG, the Parweld 160 has a very low duty cycle, its a "tacker", probably a good m/c but if you have a lot of welding to do you will be drinking a lot of tea! He should talk to TallGuy, he has a combo and is very happy with it, its a very good option, e.g. if you needed to weld dissimilar or high spec' metals etc, its a lot cheaper to buy a few electrodes that a roll of MIG wire. Also you will effect a much stronger weld. Very rarely will a MIG weld break, what usually happens is that the weld breaks away from the parent metal, this is because the energy in the arc is very intense. It creates a "brittle" (for want of a better word) area where the weld joins the parent metal, you do not get this with MMA. So the combo is a very sensible option - buy the largest that suits the generator and his pocket.
 

TheTallGuy

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
Like the OP I have often thought of getting a small welder, don't think I'll bother now after reading this.
I wouldn't let this little spat put you off - if you haven't done much welding (or any), then get a basic stick welder to start with - you can always upgrade later if you want to, but go for an inverter type if you can afford it.

The most important thing with welding is to have an auto-darkening helmet as the basic "face shields" supplied with most welders require you to hold it with one hand - you also have to guesstimate the striking point as you can't see through the glass until the arc strikes! An auto darkening helmet will allow you to safely see what you are doing before, during and after the weld.
 

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