Best cover crop to dry soil

On most of our land, if it is wet, and you leave an open slot, and it rains, you are fine. If it stays dry for a week with some sun, imagine a disc cutter making expansion gaps in concrete and then dropping a seed in and expecting it to grow. On some of the better land, when it dries, it will mellow and some soil will probably cover the seed, or at least the rolls will. My hopes were that by gradually moving from inversion, to deep non inversion, to min till, and then dd and eventually zero till, the condition of the land will improve to aid some of these issue. There are lots of drills out there, just need to try a few and see if disc, or tine is the better option for my land. Trouble is, like everywhere, as we have expanded, our range of soil types is increasing. There is not a silver bullet, but there may be a nice compromise bit of kit out there. My guess is zero till may be a step too far, but we'll see


In a discussion regarding 'soil types' and what you can get away with when drilling damp ground (in terms of slot closure), I think the key ( in my experience) is how fine textured the soil is classed...... heavy = fine textured = less forgiving.

I think you are right to be wary of no tilth and dodgy slot closure if you are on fine textured soil. Assuming you are on genuine heavy soil the best and most reliable consistent results will come from creating conditions in the seed zone that are friable and closed up.

It may be that you can tweak your rotation to make it easier and more likely to get those conditions. To some extent drill choice helps but I agree that there is no machine that will be fool proof in the absence of other efforts/ strategies to create good drilling conditions.
 

Cutlerstom

Member
Arable Farmer
In a discussion regarding 'soil types' and what you can get away with when drilling damp ground (in terms of slot closure), I think the key ( in my experience) is how fine textured the soil is classed...... heavy = fine textured = less forgiving.

I think you are right to be wary of no tilth and dodgy slot closure if you are on fine textured soil. Assuming you are on genuine heavy soil the best and most reliable consistent results will come from creating conditions in the seed zone that are friable and closed up.

It may be that you can tweak your rotation to make it easier and more likely to get those conditions. To some extent drill choice helps but I agree that there is no machine that will be fool proof in the absence of other efforts/ strategies to create good drilling conditions.
Soil type is always a difficult one. We have been variable rate drilling for 3 yrs now, and some fields have up to 7 different soil zones in a 20 acre field, so when choosing machinery I always tend to try on what I think is the worst. I have to admit, I thought a lot of the disc drills had angled closing wheels that sort of pinched the slot back together with pressure from both sides, but I need to get out and see some working in the field! I will be trying some other crops in the mix to try and create more friable soil in the top couple of inches next time.
 
Soil type is always a difficult one. We have been variable rate drilling for 3 yrs now, and some fields have up to 7 different soil zones in a 20 acre field, so when choosing machinery I always tend to try on what I think is the worst. I have to admit, I thought a lot of the disc drills had angled closing wheels that sort of pinched the slot back together with pressure from both sides, but I need to get out and see some working in the field! I will be trying some other crops in the mix to try and create more friable soil in the top couple of inches next time.

The problem with the closing wheels you describe can be that as things dry the slot reopens.
 
The problem with the closing wheels you describe can be that as things dry the slot reopens.

Yes that that can be the problem if closing wheels are used to force damp fine textured soil closed. That is why I like to see a little tilth because if we get no rain and drying conditions after drilling, soil doesn't tend to crack and also seedling establishment is better.

The other side however is the gutler Scenario where damp soil can be closed but left a little less squashed down hard.
 
Location
Cambridge
Also I thought the US was the home of the spiked closing wheel which I can confirm works.

On notill row crop they are very focused on tilth around seed and seed-soil contact .
Tilth yes, seed-soil contact yes. Closing the slot? Not so much in my experience. When you're putting on pre-ems before drilling, and then have the option of glyphosate in the crop, it's not such a big deal.
 

Andrew K

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Essex
Guys,
I think the problem can be eased on heavy land by establishing the cover crop in a ridged format, we all know that ridges allow soil to dry out quicker in say crops like potatoes, and i see no reason why i cant drill cover crops with my Claydon Hybrid with the rear harrow raised, leaving the seedbed ridged up to a degree for the next crop so to speak, .Drilling into level relatively tight and trash covered soil with the next crop would be extremely difficult [ with any drill] on my dirt in a spring much wetter than this one..... IMO!
The Mzuri does a similar job as seen here.
 

Attachments

  • 2011-08-14 11.42.52.JPG
    2011-08-14 11.42.52.JPG
    486.1 KB · Views: 76
Last edited:

Shutesy

Moderator
Arable Farmer
Guys,
I think the problem can be eased on heavy land by establishing the cover crop in a ridged format, we all know that ridges allow soil to dry out quicker in say crops like potatoes, and i see no reason why i cant drill cover crops with my Claydon Hybrid with the rear harrow raised, leaving the seedbed ridged up to a degree for the next crop so to speak, .Drilling into level relatively tight and trash covered soil with the next crop would be extremely difficult [ with any drill] on my dirt in a spring much wetter than this one..... IMO!
The Mzuri does a similar job as seen here.
Would you not roll after drilling then to leave the ridges intact? What if we have a dry summer and need rolling to conserve moisture and get good seed to soil contact?
 

Andrew K

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Essex
Would you not roll after drilling then to leave the ridges intact? What if we have a dry summer and need rolling to conserve moisture and get good seed to soil contact?
Alex,
I would put plenty of load on the rear press wheels if you have that set up, if not then roll same way as drill has gone.
I have long felt the strip till and band coulter drills leave it better in corrugated condition in the spring . Every one else thinks i,m mad !
 

Shutesy

Moderator
Arable Farmer
Alex,
I would put plenty of load on the rear press wheels if you have that set up, if not then roll same way as drill has gone.
I have long felt the strip till and band coulter drills leave it better in corrugated condition in the spring . Every one else thinks i,m mad !
I can see the logic. I think those of us on heavy land need to think outside the box a bit with regard to cover cropping and spring drilling so we dont get in a muddle with wet soils in the spring. The cover crop trial i did gave some interesting results at drilling a few weeks ago so i now know what i would change for the next time.
 
I can see the logic. I think those of us on heavy land need to think outside the box a bit with regard to cover cropping and spring drilling so we dont get in a muddle with wet soils in the spring. The cover crop trial i did gave some interesting results at drilling a few weeks ago so i now know what i would change for the next time.

What did you find? What are you going to change? (Have I asked this already?)

We haven't drilled that crop crop field you looked at yet. Now quite wet but before the rain it was only marginally wetter than our barer fields. Very good structure when I had a dig round with Philip Wright. Also, it's died back loads so that the surface cover isn't really inhibiting drying that much.
 

britt

Member
BASE UK Member
To grow an overwinter cover crop on heavy land I think you need a very low rate of seed for species that will survive the winter and remain upright to give plenty of air movement and sun at soil level in the spring.
The Lamport project only used 25kg of black oats and vetch.
You could use a mix with a high proportion of fast growing, but frost suseptable plants to give maximum oganic matter in autumn, leaving minimal cover to draw out water and give some benefit untill sowing.
 
Last edited:
I am coming to the view that cover crop work better in wetter areas on easier working soil types truly heavy land in these areas is probably not cropped

I have found that on heavy land mole draining has dried out the the soils much more than any thing else to the extent od giving a weeks earlier drilling if needed

I am coming to the conclusion that unless the heavy land fields have been drained with porous back fill and moled regularly then no till is not possible in some years

then for pre pourous back fill drained land the plough is the best option
this system of drainage was developed when ploughing was the main tool and worked for generations

this spring I have also found that lighter easier textured land can be wetter below the surface than heavy bare land that was mole drained last spring
 

Richard III

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
CW5 Cheshire
I am coming to the view that cover crop work better in wetter areas on easier working soil types truly heavy land in these areas is probably not cropped

I think your spot on with this part of your post, the rest is outside my direct farming experience, so can't really comment.

Good No Till certainly changes the way the soil works and heavy land, or land in poor condition takes longer to go through these changes. I have some difficult land that has very deep unstoned clay drains and a heavy slow draining subsoil. Back in my cultivation days I thought the drains were useless and there was never any real sign of them working. Now in No Till, the drains become clearly visible in the crop every spring, the problem appears to be the water doesn't appear to move sideways very well in a No Till soil so the crop is poorer in between the drains.
 
I am coming to the view that cover crop work better in wetter areas on easier working soil types truly heavy land in these areas is probably not cropped

I have found that on heavy land mole draining has dried out the the soils much more than any thing else to the extent od giving a weeks earlier drilling if needed

I am coming to the conclusion that unless the heavy land fields have been drained with porous back fill and moled regularly then no till is not possible in some years

then for pre pourous back fill drained land the plough is the best option
this system of drainage was developed when ploughing was the main tool and worked for generations

this spring I have also found that lighter easier textured land can be wetter below the surface than heavy bare land that was mole drained last spring

Interesting. How often do you mean when you say "moled regularly"?
 

martian

DD Moderator
BASE UK Member
Location
N Herts
Every nine years here. I'm hoping under no-till the moles will last longer with less traffic mauling about on top, and an improving subsoil structure enabling the water to get to the moles and keep them working.

To return to the OP, I'm sorry now that we sprayed all our covers off in Feb, I'd be interested to see how wet the soil would be now under a thick cover after this last dry spell. Some of our land is a bit like Feldspars in the picture he posted this morning, clammy plastercine in appearance, but it is surprisingly forgiving to drill into, with a decent structure underneath for the roots to work into. Mulika going in next week, so we'll see what happens
 

E_B

Member
Location
Norfolk
I just don't think cover crops before spring drilling can be utilised on properly heavy land, based on all anecdotal evidence. A simple hard and fast rule that I intend to stick by when most likely transitioning to a direct drilling rotation on a Suffolk heavy clay farm in the coming years.
 
Interesting. How often do you mean when you say "moled regularly"?

every 4 years at 2 m apart 9 year is too infrequent especially if the drainage was done at 40 m spacing and it is usually to dry in the autumn

I plan to do it in the spring before or after planting beans
last year did quite a bit a week or more after the beans were planted with no ill effect twin leg machine is needed for no till situation as it takes out the tractor wheeling we may be able to mole shallower if the pourous back fill is near enough to the surface
moling in the spring takes 1/3 less effort than in the autumn after osr when it can be too dry so a smaller tractor can be used the land dries out after moling which helps harden the mole

most cultivated situation have to be moled deeper as the mole need a few inches of undisturbed soil above it

with newly drained fields I would put pourous to 10 inches from the top and mole at 14 inches this would be much easier than moling to 21 inches

our top soil is only usually 8 to 9 inches before the plough brings up pure subsoil
deep ploughing in the past ruined many loamy top soils on heavy
 
every 4 years at 2 m apart 9 year is too infrequent especially if the drainage was done at 40 m spacing and it is usually to dry in the autumn

I plan to do it in the spring before or after planting beans
last year did quite a bit a week or more after the beans were planted with no ill effect twin leg machine is needed for no till situation as it takes out the tractor wheeling we may be able to mole shallower if the pourous back fill is near enough to the surface
moling in the spring takes 1/3 less effort than in the autumn after osr when it can be too dry so a smaller tractor can be used the land dries out after moling which helps harden the mole

most cultivated situation have to be moled deeper as the mole need a few inches of undisturbed soil above it

with newly drained fields I would put pourous to 10 inches from the top and mole at 14 inches this would be much easier than moling to 21 inches

our top soil is only usually 8 to 9 inches before the plough brings up pure subsoil
deep ploughing in the past ruined many loamy top soils on heavy

What is the finish like after moling in no-till fields? Is there any problem no-tilling behind? Some moling we've done recently had quite a bit of heave and looked really quite uneven.
 

clbarclay

Member
Location
Worcestershire
It can be a problem for the drill, I had to drill across most of my moleing at a very acute angle with a moore unidrill to stop it rolling or bouncing and upsetting the GPS steering, but otherwise hasn't adversely effected the crop. The rolling and bouncing was more because the undisturbed ground was much harder at the time of drilling rather than the disturbed strips being rough.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,294
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top