£129 ha for Wales!

There was no cost to lease out naked acres. I know of plenty of places that were getting £50 an acre for naked acres the option was there for both you and silliam to have taken advantage of

Yes I did a bit. Should I point out to you that £50/acre is the same level of payment that is currently proposed in the new scheme. The one which you predict is the death knell of the family farm.

So its alright for others to get this low level of money, but not you, oh no....
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Yes, whatever system comes in, in whatever form it takes, like any sensible business we will seek to get the most out of it as we can, if that means changes so be it.;)

Don't you do the same?:scratchhead:
yep as when we changed over to area based payment just except it and get on no good to moan about it
 

Penmoel

Member
Yes I did a bit. Should I point out to you that £50/acre is the same level of payment that is currently proposed in the new scheme. The one which you predict is the death knell of the family farm.

So its alright for others to get this low level of money, but not you, oh no....

Most naked acres traded for 50% or more of what the claimant was to receive, in the majority of cases the naked acres came about as surplus land to what the farmer had in the reference period, so the £50 or what ever was a bonus on top.
Incidentally , you do not know our business, we sold some £85ha entitlements to buy £350ha entitlements.
If you are happy with £50 stick with it .
 
Most naked acres traded for 50% or more of what the claimant was to receive, in the majority of cases the naked acres came about as surplus land to what the farmer had in the reference period, so the £50 or what ever was a bonus on top.
Incidentally , you do not know our business, we sold some £85ha entitlements to buy £350ha entitlements.
If you are happy with £50 stick with it .

Yes as a playing the system thing its fine. But let's not pretend its anything to do with agricultural production or gaec.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
flat rate would stop all that
and if what @Blod said is right and we are going to end up all getting the same then that is what we will have to get use to
after coming on TFF for a good moan saying how unfair it all is that is
 
The first thing your example farmers need is a decent accountant Ianto. If they are losing that much they need to rethink. Its a simple as that.

First of all, I am not their accountant but have access to their accounts. They are not losing money, and just about hold their head above water. The example with rounded figures is actual and not hypothetic.

For some of us, it is not about the bottom line (profit) but maintaining the Rural Community. The Welsh Language does play a part in their and my views, which as a "down below" you cannot comprehend or understand.

For them Farming is a way of life, and they now nothing else.

Call them naïve if you want, but they do provide employment and contribute to a livelihood for many families directly or indirectly.

That for me is the purpose of the CAP.

They could have split into separate businesses, and would if there is a cap on Acreage be better off.

There are probably many like them, who if they banded together could institute another Legal Challenge which WAG would find impossible to defend.

IANTO
 
I'm not being personal here, but tough sh!t!
You had the chance to bank that money or speculate with it, many of us have had nothing to bank without a second job.
You decided to put all your eggs in one basket, no one forced you to.
When the going was good, it was fudge every one else and I actualy remember one big farmer down our way in the pub pee'd shouting to the rest of us to go out and earn his sfp for him, we'd just come back from work and it rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way. Many own houses in town to save driving home drunk, the rest of us can barely aford to have one at all.

I'm not sure whether your response was aimed at me or not.

Anyway, it was my "second job" that enabled me to buy entitlements in the first place, and trade up and reinvest over the years.

Everyone said I was mad, but I gambled and have won.

I have not made a fortune, as it has all been spent on improving the land, and acquiring more land, and in the process have contributed to the local economy, and due to timing differences between income and expenditure in Tax to HMG.

IANTO
 
According to the WAG Website, Rebecca Evans The Deputy Minister for Farming and Food is responsible for:

1. The delivery via the Rural Development Plan of measures to support the management and competitiveness of agriculture and forestry, improve the environment and countryside, including promotion of agri-environment schemes, organic and woodland activities and to enhance the social and economic well being of rural communities;

I guess that this is the option that is the subject of this thread.

2. Agriculture sector development, including wages and skills;

These cannot be isolated from the above. If farms cannot afford to pay the minimum wage, then whatever WAG dictate is rather academic.

3. Developing agri-food sector, associated supply chains and promotion of food from Wales;

Again adding value depends on having a viable agricultural sector in the first place.

4. Animal health and welfare, including: responding to reports of notifiable animal diseases affecting Wales; Local Authority animal health enforcement policy; the licensing of zoos by Local Authorities; and the regulation of slaughterhouses;

Licensing of Zoos is interesting. Have Cardiff City Council licensed the Zoo where the Welsh Assembly Government meet?

5. The artificial insemination of livestock, including poultry, companion animals, equines, and bees;

Interesting! Does this mean you can call on her personally for AI services?

6. Livestock identification and movement policy, including the importation of livestock and dangerous animals other than for agricultural purposes;

What exactly is a dangerous animal that is for agricultural purposes?

7. Holding Registration Policy (CPH);

The mind boggles! One hand or two!

8. The protection of wildlife in Wales, including control of pests, weeds and vermin and the regulation of plant health, seeds and pesticides;

This is where WAG fail dismally! Protecting wildlife means protecting Badgers, and not other species that are being wiped out by Badgers. If only politicians who dictate these terms, that any countryman knows is based on political rather than a true concern for protecting the environment, would be liable for damages if they got it wrong, there would a lot less decisions made to appease the supposed party supporter. Badgers in my area are two a penny, while Hedgehogs, Bumble Bees, Wasps, Skylarks and other Ground Nesting Birds, are an endangered species.

9. Assess with other UK competent authorities all Part C applications seeking approval for the uses of Genetically Modified (GM) crops in cultivation and importation in the European Union and the licensing of any GM crop trials in Wales;

At your peril!

10. The power to require provision of information about crop prices;

I suggest you refer all questions to @Silliamwhale!

11. Common Land Policy (implementation of the Commons Act 2006 mainly).

Is there such a thing as Common Land?

I intend copying this post to Rebecca Evans [email protected]

her direct superior Carl Sargeant [email protected]

and the chief honcho Carwyn Jones [email protected]

and invite them to contribute to the discussion.

If they are serious about consultation they will respond.

Feel free to contact them directly using the above links.

Start with Carwyn, and work down.

IANTO
 
First of all, I am not their accountant but have access to their accounts. They are not losing money, and just about hold their head above water. The example with rounded figures is actual and not hypothetic.

For some of us, it is not about the bottom line (profit) but maintaining the Rural Community. The Welsh Language does play a part in their and my views, which as a "down below" you cannot comprehend or understand.

For them Farming is a way of life, and they now nothing else.

Call them naïve if you want, but they do provide employment and contribute to a livelihood for many families directly or indirectly.

That for me is the purpose of the CAP.

They could have split into separate businesses, and would if there is a cap on Acreage be better off.

There are probably many like them, who if they banded together could institute another Legal Challenge which WAG would find impossible to defend.

IANTO

There is nothing wrong with those views (arguably the using CAP funds for maintaining Welsh language thing is a bit dodgy but I get your point). But their employee's need to be contributing to the business via their labour not via the sub cheque - you can dress it up how you wish but it is that simple.

But the problem with the current CAP is that it is still based on a very short period of base years and also it is subject to trading and large variabilities of payments.
 

7610 super q

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
There is something wrong here. 2003?

What according to you were the base years?

IANTO
2000,01,02 You are right there was something wrong. SFP was taken from working farmers and given to slipper farmers.
2003 was when I changed from spuds/veg to corn.Picked the wrong time to change I admit.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
If you had changed over gradually years ago like we did
you wouldn't have so many that were so worried about losing there historic payment that they have become addicted and had to feed there addiction by going out and buying someone else's history instead of getting on with some farming ?
 

llamedos

New Member
NFU Cymru is pleased to announce a Roadshow of events around Wales to canvass members’ views on the new proposals for the Welsh Government Basic Payment Scheme set out within a consultation launched today.

As a result of the legal challenge just before Christmas the future design of the Basic Payment Scheme in Wales is now subject to a 12-week consultation.

Stephen James, NFU Cymru President said, “Given the interest this is creating NFU Cymru has organised five events across Wales where we will go through the consultation paper with members, talking through the discussions that have taken place since the legal challenge and to seek members’ views on the options that are now being consulted upon.”

“We know that the future design of the Basic Payment Scheme is a contentious issue and our membership will have a range of views on the best way forward. This is completely understandable given that whatever proposal is eventually decided upon by Welsh Government can make a significant impact on the level of CAP support an individual farming business will receive in future. Therefore,I would urge our members to come along to our events to find out more about the Welsh Government proposals and help shape NFU Cymru’s response to this consultation.



The NFU Cymru events, listed below, have been kindly sponsored by Barclays Bank.

DateVenue Time

28/04/15 Celtic Royal, Caernarfon 1.30 – 3.30pm



28/04/15 Llysfasi College, Ruthin 7.30 – 9.30pm



29/04/15 Carno Community Hall, Carno 1.30 – 3.30pm



29/04/15 Bishops Meadow, Brecon 7.30 – 9.30pm



30/04/15 Nantyffin Motel, Llandissilio 7.30 – 9.30pm
 
2000,01,02 You are right there was something wrong. SFP was taken from working farmers and given to slipper farmers.
2003 was when I changed from spuds/veg to corn.Picked the wrong time to change I admit.
Why spuds and veg ground exempt from claiming sfp wasn't farming then so not sure as to why I was lucky to be given the average payment per ac to welsh farmers which from memory is not far of what their proposing now
 

7610 super q

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
Why spuds and veg ground exempt from claiming sfp wasn't farming then so not sure as to why I was lucky to be given the average payment per ac to welsh farmers which from memory is not far of what their proposing now
I wish I knew. 3 years later you could claim on spud/ veg ground. The whole thing was bizarre. Never mind, water under the bridge now.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.9%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 63 34.2%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.3%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 6 3.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,287
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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