4x

happycows · Aug 24, 2015

One casualty and one old girl had a heart attack last year. Casualty was a heifer 12 weeks calved injured bulling. she went in our freezer so not a total right off other was.
Try and get 75 to 80 incalf to calf between march and november. Some would go before calving. Depends who wants what or how full the robot is for training heifers. I had 25 incalf heifers this year but had 32 born(too many twins). Just sold 5 incalf heifers last week. got 12 more due now that i will keep but i can't keep them all and it's never worth busting a gut to train them for 3 weeks just to sell in market. I lost 5 beef calf sales but no risk involved and i kept all the ones i liked most. Replacement rate would be nearer 25% per year of all cows and incalf heifers now but only 10% going as culls/deaths with rest being sold on to other herds.

buffalo_soldier · Aug 24, 2015

Only studies I've read on 4+ milkings are American and I do believe the replacement rates were high but they were also overstocking which will contribute.

happycows · Aug 24, 2015

surely lely have done studies on the benifits of milking 4 times a day.

buffalo_soldier · Aug 24, 2015

happycows said:
surely lely have done studies on the benifits of milking 4 times a day.

Apologies, I was meaning on a conventional (all up) system. I can see how a robot set-up will get round that issue.

Splitpin · Aug 24, 2015

Friend of mine milks his high group 4x. He hasn't altered the 3x milking times, he milks the highs first in the morning and the milks them again between the morn and afternoon milking and then milks them last in the afternoon. He's not the type to do it if it didn't pay. High yielding herd, probaly 10+

multi power · Aug 24, 2015

More to life said:
It ain't rocket science
Fresh weight
18kg maize silage
18kg grass silage
6kg dairy cake 16%
2kg soya hulls
3.5 kg wheat
2.8kg rape
2.8 kg hipro
0.15 kg mins
That's 28kg dm 12.2m/d 17% protein

Cows currently peaking at 48kg at day 55 2x a day milking

Thank you for explaining. I would have no knowledge of such cows

Beef farmer · Aug 24, 2015

multi power said:
Thank you for explaining. I would have no knowledge of such cows

They sound expensive

jimmer · Aug 24, 2015

lazy farmer said:
I would ask you to explain the economics of replacing one cow with another before she's even had the chance to pay for own rearing costs let alone contributed to the profitability of the herd.
your a credit for putting your kids to bed many fathers are sadly home to late to do that across all job sectors in this country. nothing better than reading a story or two. how about day trips ?watching them play sports, riding bikes etc football practise help with home work. the list is endless.. im not having a go at you this is for all of us.we can all do better at achieving a good work life balance and I was just like you until I read the 80/20 rule by Richard Koch.
Have you ask your partner/wife what she thinks? and im not just talking about 4x a day . I'm talking about about the stuff we all ignore because its easier too in the short term. If nothing else(if you haven't already) ask her if she thinks you spend enough time with the kids and separately her? and time spent snoring on the sofa doesn't count!

its only really applicable when you have adequate numbers of heifers coming through or you can buy at a reasonable price

average lactations 3 lets say , 2ppl profit (i know i know not now but averages and all that) , on 10,000l is £200 profit per year , so £600 per average lifetime , a 700 kilo cow at 100ppk is £700 , less a few losses and lower priced culls , say £500 per cull cow , lets assume at least one bull calf sold for £100 ,and she had two heifer calves (first calf was sexed)
so each cow has two to replace her and an income of £1200 profit
i have kept the best and most healthy/fertile cows and have progeny from her which should be the same and hopefully better , she is less likely to have increased vet and med costs and more likely to walk up a tailboard than be dragged up on the end of a winch
rose tinted specs maybe and probably got holes in it that many others will see

@pigdogduck is the best thing to happen to me she is understanding and supporting (she has read all this thread ), we are like old friends , she has just gone geocaching while i am here to watch over the kids , a cuddle on the sofa keeps us happy , she does two night milking shifts per week , looks after three kids under 4 , works two days a week at local abbatoir, looks after two dogs ,ME, keeps the house going , does all my financial paperwork and usually with a smile on her face. (and i complain about being tired)

Princess Pooper · Aug 24, 2015

jimmer said:
@pigdogduck is the best thing to happen to me she is understanding and supporting (she has read all this thread ), we are like old friends , she has just gone geocaching while i am here to watch over the kids , a cuddle on the sofa keeps us happy , she does two night milking shifts per week , looks after three kids under 4 , works two days a week at local abbatoir, looks after two dogs ,ME, keeps the house going , does all my financial paperwork and usually with a smile on her face. (and i complain about being tired)

typical multi-skilled woman then!

The Ruminant · Aug 28, 2015

jimmer said:
its only really applicable when you have adequate numbers of heifers coming through or you can buy at a reasonable price

average lactations 3 lets say , 2ppl profit (i know i know not now but averages and all that) , on 10,000l is £200 profit per year , so £600 per average lifetime , a 700 kilo cow at 100ppk is £700 , less a few losses and lower priced culls , say £500 per cull cow , lets assume at least one bull calf sold for £100 ,and she had two heifer calves (first calf was sexed)
so each cow has two to replace her and an income of £1200 profit
i have kept the best and most healthy/fertile cows and have progeny from her which should be the same and hopefully better , she is less likely to have increased vet and med costs and more likely to walk up a tailboard than be dragged up on the end of a winch
rose tinted specs maybe and probably got holes in it that many others will see

@pigdogduck is the best thing to happen to me she is understanding and supporting (she has read all this thread ), we are like old friends , she has just gone geocaching while i am here to watch over the kids , a cuddle on the sofa keeps us happy , she does two night milking shifts per week , looks after three kids under 4 , works two days a week at local abbatoir, looks after two dogs ,ME, keeps the house going , does all my financial paperwork and usually with a smile on her face. (and i complain about being tired)

What does it cost you to rear a heifer right through to the point it enters the parlour?

jimmer · Aug 28, 2015

to calve at 2 years between 1.50 and 2.00 per day , so between £1000 and £1400

some would say a little high but might not factor losses into it and depends on cost of labour

i could rear a heifer to calve at 2 years old for £700 , but i can guarantee she would be undersized , have a diminished appetite when calved and give a fair bit less milk

this is all based on a holstein which will only spend a maximum of a third of its time before calving out at grass

happycows · Aug 28, 2015

Plus the cost of the calf...

jimmer · Aug 28, 2015

happycows said:
Plus the cost of the calf...

not really applicable in my opinion if you calve and rear the replacements yourself, as this cost is associable to feeding costs up until sale of approximately £100 at three weeks old

happycows · Aug 29, 2015

There is a value there surely. It needs to be included . It's cost you to get it. Well bred 8 week old heifer calves still making £300 plus. Or loss of a conti beef calf sale £300.

The Ruminant · Aug 29, 2015

jimmer said:
to calve at 2 years between 1.50 and 2.00 per day , so between £1000 and £1400

some would say a little high but might not factor losses into it and depends on cost of labour

i could rear a heifer to calve at 2 years old for £700 , but i can guarantee she would be undersized , have a diminished appetite when calved and give a fair bit less milk

this is all based on a holstein which will only spend a maximum of a third of its time before calving out at grass

I'm puzzled and intrigued. Using your earlier figures, you arrived at a total profit for your cow, over three years and including its cull value and the sale of a bull calf, of £1200. It is then costing you £1400 to replace this cow, so a loss of £200. The only thing not accounted for is the third calf (as its a 3-lactation cow). You said it's a heifer calf so it has to be worth £200 at birth just for you to break even. What have I missed?

These are genuine questions. You've always struck me as an excellent operator so don't interpret my Q's as criticism, I am just intrigued as to how it adds up. Thanks.

buffalo_soldier · Aug 29, 2015

happycows said:
There is a value there why not use it. It's cost you to get it in semen eat. Well bred 8 week old heifer calves still making £300 plus. Or loss of a conti beef calf sale £300.

If your selling it out do you then buy it back when it calves and goes into the herd?

happycows · Aug 29, 2015

I wouldn't sell heifer calves. If i didn't want them i wouldn't go to the expense of breeding them.... but i saw three nice heifer calves from a flying herd that were from a good pedigree dispersal on wednesday. £300 for young ones and £400 for weaned.

jimmer · Aug 31, 2015

The Ruminant said:
I'm puzzled and intrigued. Using your earlier figures, you arrived at a total profit for your cow, over three years and including its cull value and the sale of a bull calf, of £1200. It is then costing you £1400 to replace this cow, so a loss of £200. The only thing not accounted for is the third calf (as its a 3-lactation cow). You said it's a heifer calf so it has to be worth £200 at birth just for you to break even. What have I missed?

These are genuine questions. You've always struck me as an excellent operator so don't interpret my Q's as criticism, I am just intrigued as to how it adds up. Thanks.

you have missed nothing , just picked up on why the milk price is so dependant on profit over most other factors .
the way i see it, her first calf (sexed heifer) will calve at the same time as she calves to her third (hopefully) , therefore replacing her , with one of the other calves (both dairy calvings hopefully 50/50 bull -heifer ratio) already in the system when she leaves being a bonus , of how much value depends on whether she is from the second or third calving , also bearing in mind after a while there will be a surplus of heifer calves over and above replacement needs , which can aid cheaper expansion or be cashed in
get the rearing cost down to the lower estimate on the same year that cull prices are good and milk price is reasonable and it could be £400/£500 profit ,after replacement allowances .........
make hay while the sun shines ,and have a big enough shed to keep it in for a rainy day

Beef farmer · Aug 31, 2015

jimmer said:
you have missed nothing , just picked up on why the milk price is so dependant on profit over most other factors .
the way i see it, her first calf (sexed heifer) will calve at the same time as she calves to her third (hopefully) , therefore replacing her , with one of the other calves (both dairy calvings hopefully 50/50 bull -heifer ratio) already in the system when she leaves being a bonus , of how much value depends on whether she is from the second or third calving , also bearing in mind after a while there will be a surplus of heifer calves over and above replacement needs , which can aid cheaper expansion or be cashed in
get the rearing cost down to the lower estimate on the same year that cull prices are good and milk price is reasonable and it could be £400/£500 profit ,after replacement allowances .........
make hay while the sun shines ,and have a big enough shed to keep it in for a rainy day

Most of my pals pushing for 10000litre can't ever seem to get in a position of selling surplus heifers. One of the 1000 cow men said only last week, if you want to expand just go and buy them, as it take a long time to expand in house with a 30% replacement.

Sid · Aug 31, 2015

Beef farmer post: 1565516 said:
Most of my pals pushing for 10000litre can't ever seem to get in a position of selling surplus heifers. One of the 1000 cow men said only last week, if you want to expand just go and buy them, as it take a long time to expand in house with a 30% replacement.

We milk sub 100. I don't breed from maiden heifers. I don't use sexed semen. I have only bought 3 bullers in. But some how I seem ro have 50 heifers to calf in the next 12 months and have some stores to sell as well. At a push their will be 8 culls to go.
maybe I need to up my yield to over come thesurplus?

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