blue texel

liammogs

Member
None at all always seem to top the mart by around £10hd round here to what the rest are doing!!

As for blue texels....im sat on the fence, i rather a beltex, old man has gone to keep pures(this year) and cross on some texel/beltex ewes....ill let you know the results in the spring
 

sheepwise

Member
Location
SW Scotland
Have some here which all descended from 2 gimmers purchased originally for my young family at the time.While I certainly do not dispute that they are merely a strain of texel with a different fleece colour,there are some qualities which I feel make them different.Firstly they are fine boned and easily lambed and more importantly they have a will to live unlike any beltex we have ever had.We use them on our Charollais x BF gimmers which are lambed outside in April and get what I would term a beltex type lamb with 98% of the cross lambs actually born white.Oh did I say I have 6 pure gimmers for sale in the livestock for sale section.Would be a good christmas present for any aspiring young stocksperson.
 
Have some here which all descended from 2 gimmers purchased originally for my young family at the time.While I certainly do not dispute that they are merely a strain of texel with a different fleece colour,there are some qualities which I feel make them different.Firstly they are fine boned and easily lambed and more importantly they have a will to live unlike any beltex we have ever had.We use them on our Charollais x BF gimmers which are lambed outside in April and get what I would term a beltex type lamb with 98% of the cross lambs actually born white.Oh did I say I have 6 pure gimmers for sale in the livestock for sale section.Would be a good christmas present for any aspiring young stocksperson.
Would you say they are increasing in popularity and pushing the white texels out.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
What's the issue with beltex lambs? Genuine question not a dig.

The issue is they don't grow. Texels are slow, but Belties are much slower. Of course, they command a premium whilst we have a EUROP payment schedule (& live for the same reason), but they need a premium to make up for that low growth rate. Whether the premium is enough on your farm's system is the question.:scratchhead:
 
What's the issue with beltex lambs? Genuine question not a dig.

Same as @neilo. The lambs are slow growing, especially this time of year, they just stand still. Our tup is bigger than the average beltex but still a lot smaller than the rest of the ram gang. On the plus side they are really easy lambing, so ours is being demoted to ewe lamb work. Should make nice store lambs to sell to make a bit of bonus cash over lambing them as 2Ts. Leave someone else finish them :LOL:
 

Jackson4

Member
Location
Wensleydale
The issue is they don't grow. Texels are slow, but Belties are much slower. Of course, they command a premium whilst we have a EUROP payment schedule (& live for the same reason), but they need a premium to make up for that low growth rate. Whether the premium is enough on your farm's system is the question.:scratchhead:

Every now and again the the idea pops into my head to run a flock of belties and subject them to hard selection for growth of grass only, feet, vigour etc. They have the most extreme carcass but not the whole package. Maybe if i had another farm:D am heading down a different route now anyway, it would have to be on a big scale to make good progress, do i want the hassle. It would be rewarding though What about you Neilo? Start a flock of Belties purely of grass/forage, dont foot bath them and select off the best? cull the worst. Think there would be a big market for them when your finished.

Without wanting to be accused of willy waving:rolleyes: here is a picture of a blue texel i bought a couple years ago.
sawhhg 149.JPG They are more beltex in shape, broad and flat and they have finer boned legs etc so maybe they are breeding them for some function? The lambs were fairly indistinguishable from the white texel above it. Neither of them had super growthy lambs, but far worse was their feet which seemed to fall apart long before anything else which also prolonged their stay, which is why i sold them straight the next autumn. I did notice the blue tup kept better condition off grass than the white one which melted so you could see his backbone? breed or individual breeders.. dunno.
 
Same as @neilo. The lambs are slow growing, especially this time of year, they just stand still. Our tup is bigger than the average beltex but still a lot smaller than the rest of the ram gang. On the plus side they are really easy lambing, so ours is being demoted to ewe lamb work. Should make nice store lambs to sell to make a bit of bonus cash over lambing them as 2Ts. Leave someone else finish them :LOL:
Gotcha, with being slower growing iam guessing the meat will be in more demand than a quick finish lamb
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Every now and again the the idea pops into my head to run a flock of belties and subject them to hard selection for growth of grass only, feet, vigour etc. They have the most extreme carcass but not the whole package. Maybe if i had another farm:D am heading down a different route now anyway, it would have to be on a big scale to make good progress, do i want the hassle. It would be rewarding though What about you Neilo? Start a flock of Belties purely of grass/forage, dont foot bath them and select off the best? cull the worst. Think there would be a big market for them when your finished.

Have you spoken to anyone that breeds Beltexs? Getting lambs out alive is a specialist job and not for the faint hearted. If you breed for easy lambing in the pure females, you will breed out the very thing they have got going for them. The other option, which some take, is to flush a few exceptional ewes into crossbred recips, but that costs £'s. I honestly don't think there would be that big a market, as soon as the EUROP grid disappears and we are paid on lean meat yield (if/when/maybe), the premium on that shape of lamb will vanish overnight.
 

MJT

Member
No I didn't. They did seem very small compared to White texels though.
Ah fair !
Why? It is lean, hard meat with little intramuscular fat, the opposite of what the likes of Innovis are working on to improve meat eating quality.

Beg to differ NeilO , tried an extreme ewe lamb this year in the freezer alongside texel x and cheviot lambs. Expected it to be gristle like a Belgian blue but tasted great surprisingly, as juicy as the others just less fat on outside.
 
Why? It is lean, hard meat with little intramuscular fat, the opposite of what the likes of Innovis are working on to improve meat eating quality.
I equate age with more flavour and texture, I would get chased by my buyers if I tried to palm off anything less than 8 month old. Did try it once as an experiment, wasn't allowed on any menus. But my market is different to other peoples markets.
 

andybk

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Mendips Somerset
Have you spoken to anyone that breeds Beltexs? Getting lambs out alive is a specialist job and not for the faint hearted. If you breed for easy lambing in the pure females, you will breed out the very thing they have got going for them. The other option, which some take, is to flush a few exceptional ewes into crossbred recips, but that costs £'s. I honestly don't think there would be that big a market, as soon as the EUROP grid disappears and we are paid on lean meat yield (if/when/maybe), the premium on that shape of lamb will vanish overnight.

I agree to a point , i can see a time when its yeild payments here as in NZ , BUT the European market is different (hence the grid) , in that there is a ready market for gigot / loin which goes to the med hotel / restaurant market , where it is a big premium product ,'?: , and the front end which ends up in the north discounted so the breeders have responded to it, carcass are split in Paris and sent in different directions , A market the charollais / beltex / texel was built on, ( adding in no place for stores on breeders farms so no escape route for poor shape ) , so i cant see the beltex going anywhere for the time being at least for export , but it needs it get more functional , in belgium small flocks of 20 - 30 ewes will put up with the messing around in a pure set-up .But large uk flocks require a different approach .
The blue texel on the other hand is more a throw back to a more traditional dutch bred texel of the 70s so the extremes of big heads . heavy frame ,and pelvic shape is not there so much , which i expect is the reason people like them , ie the functionality, Their populatity is more of a comment on where the white texel has ended up , than the blue strain itself
 
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liammogs

Member
The reason i think some white texel breeders are thinking them of a 'threat' as they are not so extreme bone amd big heads of the white texels, i not sure about you lot but after having a quick look around some of the pens in buith nsa theres not many id like to use......a lot have lost there shape, and style/character and now its all about size and bone!!
 
I agree to a point , i can see a time when its yeild payments here as in NZ , BUT the European market is different (hence the grid) , in that there is a ready market for gigot / loin which goes to the med hotel / restaurant market , where it is a big premium product ,'?: , and the front end which ends up in the north discounted so the breeders have responded to it, carcass are split in Paris and sent in different directions , A market the charollais / beltex / texel was built on, ( adding in no place for stores on breeders farms so no escape route for poor shape ) , so i cant see the beltex going anywhere for the time being at least for export , but it needs it get more functional , in belgium small flocks of 20 - 30 ewes will put up with the messing around in a pure set-up .But large uk flocks require a different approach .
The blue texel on the other hand is more a throw back to a more traditional dutch bred texel of the 70s so the extremes of big heads . heavy frame ,and pelvic shape is not there so much , which i expect is the reason people like them , ie the functionality, Their populatity is more of a comment on where the texel has ended up , than the strain its self
So have the days of the white Texel peaked?? Is the old blue relative about to wave its white cousin off into the distance?? In the current climate of saving money and trying to grasp any opportunity to improve, are the days of paying someone to sit up all night watching over ewes which have trouble lambing due to large lambs coming to an end?? Surely flock owners wanting to maintain standards are going to be looking for an alternative such as the blue Texel in a bid to save finances??
 

andybk

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Mendips Somerset
So have the days of the white Texel peaked?? Is the old blue relative about to wave its white cousin off into the distance?? In the current climate of saving money and trying to grasp any opportunity to improve, are the days of paying someone to sit up all night watching over ewes which have trouble lambing due to large lambs coming to an end?? Surely flock owners wanting to maintain standards are going to be looking for an alternative such as the blue Texel in a bid to save finances??
I feel the days of massaging the egos of sale buers and sellers will peter out , much the same as shows are just like beauty contests , commercial men realise these days , those sheep are just a pretty sideline , caveat emptor !
The most successful ram sellers in the country rarely go near a sale ring , so feed cost is saved , and rumen develpoment isnt hindered , very high % go off farm , sales by word of mouth or other publicity , most will record to some degree (not nessesarily with signet many on farm basic systems deliver just as good results IMO ) and concentrate on the finished article namely a 40kg lamb with minimal input and good structure , the rest is window dressing .
Our challenge as ram breeders is to produce an animal that wont melt , even after work , deliver the goods over your commercial sheep and last 4- 5 years trouble free years .(how many at Builth will do that ? )
The answer isnt the blue texel , just part of it, the show men need freezing out and all breeds get back to basics
 
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neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I feel the days of massaging the egos of sale buers and sellers will peter out , much the same as shows are just like beauty contests , commercial men realise these days , those sheep are just a pretty sideline ,
The most successful ram sellers in the country rarely go near a sale ring , so feed cost is saved , and rumen develpoment isnt hindered , very high % go off farm , sales by word of mouth or other publicity , most will record to some degree (not nessesarily with signet many on farm basic systems deliver just as good results IMO ) and concentrate on the finished article namely a 40kg lamb with minimal input and good structure , the rest is window dressing .
Our challenge as ram breeders is to produce an animal that wont melt , deliver the goods on your commercial sheep and last 4- 5 years trouble free years .(how many at builth will do that ? )
The answer isnt the blue texel , just part of it, the show men need freezing out and all breeds get back to basics

Whilst I've yet to see any other recording system that can incorporate ultrasound & CT scanning data and analyse lambs in various contemporary groups as good as BLUP (Signet in the UK) can, I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your post.(y)
 

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