New build ag dwelling rules

roscoe erf · Mar 22, 2014

Kidds said:
How much livestock do I have to have to be a livestock farmer?

I could just move to a cheaper part of the world and buy a ready made setup.
This would be further from my markets, but still viable.
It would also be further from my parents which is the bit I am trying to avoid. I'm well aware that plenty of folk live far away from their parents but I am working on the old fashioned view that they are my responsibility.

the way you posted this and how it reads you want livestock to get planning on a piece of land that you would have no hope of getting unless you use the livestock card this is what i do not hold any truck with,regardless of you or your background its not personal i would say the same of anyone trying to circumvent the planning laws

Kidds · Mar 22, 2014

I am trying to satisfy the planning laws, not circumvent them.
Anyway, I shall say no more on the matter.

multi power · Mar 22, 2014

Kidds said:
I am trying to satisfy the planning laws, not circumvent them.
Anyway, I shall say no more on the matter.

im assuming you will be growing high value intensive crops on 20 acres with a profit of 30k a year, or more, i would expect that would satisfy the planning rules, a mechenic friend has reacently got planning to build a house next to his garage, mainly securety reasons and the fact breakdown cars arriving on site regularly well outside normal working hours

S J H · Mar 22, 2014

Whatever you do don't start farming ostriches. They're dangerous for a reason. A friend 'got hold of one once'. The claws are massive, apparently they kick and rip your guts out.

Kidds · Mar 22, 2014

I don't plan on ostriches.
Whatever I do is a while off yet, I am committed to my present job for some years.
In the meantime I will be getting some pigs and some geese, doing some more thinking on the matter and more sums.
Without meaning to offend or be offended I will take the "hostility" to my ideas as an indication of what I will face from the planning dept and figure out how to deal with that.

brynseiri · Mar 23, 2014

Good luck, if getting the chance to build an affordable house near your parents, family farm and local area means getting two ostriches then go for it, they invented electric cattle prods and lengths of alkathene pipe for a reason.

Kidds · Mar 23, 2014

The planners around here seem to respond adversely to pain, much as I like the idea of cattle prods.

renewablejohn · Mar 23, 2014

When we started we had to prove to the council our farming proposition based on the figures in the Wye College farm management pocketbook and an income threshold of 30k per annum. We went through the book and at the time the only enterprises we could justify for our 15 acres was horticulture or Venison production. The prohibitive cost of fencing ruled out the Venison and planning restrictions on glasshouses nearly ruled out the horticulture but we where determined enough to work around the planning so ended up with a herb growing enterprise which would have been eligible for a farmhouse.

Kidds · Mar 23, 2014

Presumably the threshold income figures have to be profit after all costs are taken out.
I would think that £30k/year profit is more than a great many farms are making, of any size.

burr elm · Mar 23, 2014

so you want 20 acres for your pigs, geese and hens plus your plants and a house and you think that will pay for a living wage.
Please share with us what plants you are going to grow thats going to make all this possible because your livestock plans will cost you money.

roscoe erf · Mar 23, 2014

burr elm said:
so you want 20 acres for your pigs, geese and hens plus your plants and a house and you think that will pay for a living wage.
Please share with us what plants you are going to grow thats going to make all this possible because your livestock plans will cost you money.

marijuana

burr elm · Mar 23, 2014

S J H said:
Whatever you do don't start farming ostriches. They're dangerous for a reason. A friend 'got hold of one once'. The claws are massive, apparently they kick and rip your guts out.

I have worked with ostriches before they became fashionable, we used to catch them by jumping out of a Defender pick up, two people one on each wing whilst on the move, both people needed to catch there respective wing otherwise you was in for a pasting, i got stomped on a couple of times but never kicked.

JonL · Mar 24, 2014

Having gone through this recently I had to show:

1. That farm as a whole required at least 1 full time labour unit - based on standard figures from Nix etc
2. That the livestock enterprise required a permanent on site presence
3. That no other appropriate house was available, including one to buy
4. That the business was financially sound to fund the build

I suspect 1,3 and 4 will be easily proved. 2 is the difficult one and choice of livestock is important. The more needy the better. Breeding pigs better than fattening pigs, dairy cows better than beef cattle etc.

Its a bureaucratic nightmare, but nearly 2 years on we are underway building

Kidds · Mar 24, 2014

Thanks for the reply JonL.
May I ask if this was a whole new enterprise?
You make it sound like you skipped the "live in a caravan for 3 years" bit. Is that right?

Congratulations on getting it passed and the best of luck with the enterprise.

brynseiri · Mar 25, 2014

For ag tie the rules were that you work in agriculture and earn more than 11k a year doing it. At the end of the day you can quote all the facts and figures bullshyte under the sun, it's all down to your planning consultant to be honest, and how he puts it over. I can't understand folk here giving it the "how do you expect to make a living on 20 acres?" It's living on 20 acres is the goal. Pay the right professionals from the off, take their advice and do whatever is required to get permission, no consultant will recommend you set up a money pit enterprise.

JonL · Mar 25, 2014

Kidds said:
Thanks for the reply JonL.
May I ask if this was a whole new enterprise?
You make it sound like you skipped the "live in a caravan for 3 years" bit. Is that right?

Congratulations on getting it passed and the best of luck with the enterprise.

No this is on a long established business, which I think is why I avoided the living I a caravan for 3 years. I think that comes into play when there is doubt over the viability of the business requiring a dwelling.

J B · Mar 25, 2014

brynseiri said:
For ag tie the rules were that you work in agriculture and earn more than 11k a year doing it.

Where did you get that info from?

IIRC it's that your main or most recent income was from agriculture

brynseiri · Mar 25, 2014

J B said:
Where did you get that info from?

IIRC it's that your main or most recent income was from agriculture

A planning consultant who I employed to get me planning on a barn to dwelling conversion in 2010, he was quoting the requirement as a minimum at the time.

J B · Mar 25, 2014

brynseiri said:
A planning consultant who I employed to get me planning on a barn to dwelling conversion in 2010, he was quoting the requirement as a minimum at the time.

Was that a Welsh rule or UK?

donniedingle · Apr 17, 2014

now this sounds familiar, a local incomer bought a wee farm 25 acres, no sheds or house, applied for an agricultural style building,mmmmm a rat smelt straight away as it had cavity walls, his application said he was a hobby farmer? further down the line he got a residential caravan on the site, now he moves onto the said site and builds stables for daughters pony. a poly tunnel goes up,chickens geese etc,..........then, he applies for established rights to convert first shed he built into a home, and 3 yrs later he thinks he is lord of the manor, reports all for spreading smelly dung and slurry, mud left on the road from coming out of farm gateways, yes he has built a huge f!!!!!!g house, acres of tarmac, and livery stables, traffic all hours now down the wee lane, after asking the planning officer how the f!!! did he get all that, we and the locals were told we should have kicked up in the first place, when he applied for his first shed as a hobby farmer .................i think a huge back hander took place to create what he has now......grrrrrrrrrrrr

New build ag dwelling rules

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Up to 25%

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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