dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
The point of CTF is to increase yieldsWhat do you mean when people say CTF won't work?
Compaction is it a myth???
- Thread starter mikep
- Start date
SilliamWhale
Member
What do you think it costs to get into CTF?
Also do you know anyone doing silage CTF?
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Not much if you already have RTK and don't want to do it all at once. Much cheaper for someone in no till as well, fewer implements to match up.
No, why?
SilliamWhale
Member
I was wondering how CTF would work for mixed farms and keeping all the silage or maize kit on the tracks. How would the trailers match up with the forager etc.
I can see the logic if you have RTK but I'd like to see the chaff spreader/chopper move about a bit each year on a combine and also I wouldn't fancy subsoiling the tramlines (not always necessary).
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Why would you subsoil the tramlines? The whole point is they will never be growing anything!
SilliamWhale
Member
I think they'd slump and potentially with bare soil allow faster sheet erosion in them - i like things growing in all the field. I like moving tramlines about 6-12" a bit over the season until the last couple of sprays.
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C T F all very well in theory . Some have or are spending a fortune in gps and new kit to make it work . When in fact they might be better of using lighter tractors and flotation tyres. I would not want to see chaff put in the same way every year from now on and what happens when a crop has gone down and say combine it at an angle is the best way to harvest it are you going to say we cant do that as we are now ctf and must stay on the same lines .
I think we must look after our soils more and personally i recon treading more lightly is the best way to go . CTF is just part of the machinery manufacturers trying to sell a system that can involve spending a small fortune on their kit. A bit like the mim till kit that has caused more problems over the last 20 years by being more like max till (lift it all ,mix it up put it down .Oh sh!t now we have bad blackgrass etc .
I think we must look after our soils more and personally i recon treading more lightly is the best way to go . CTF is just part of the machinery manufacturers trying to sell a system that can involve spending a small fortune on their kit. A bit like the mim till kit that has caused more problems over the last 20 years by being more like max till (lift it all ,mix it up put it down .Oh sh!t now we have bad blackgrass etc .
mikep
Member
- Location
- Arse end of Surrey, UK
Totally wrong you are ignoring Mugs Law which states;
"If you double the machine weight and quadruple the price wheat increases its yeild by the inverse square of the current interest rate expressed in Australian Dollars but only on a Thursday"
warksfarmer
Member
Best example is a crop of maize. We tried some grain maize a few years ago and the land was subsoiled, ploughed, power harrow and then drilled.
The headlands did not come very well and yielded half because the traffic from the plough tractor, power harrow tractor and drill tractor compacted the soil. Pushing a spade into the soil also showed this as well.
But it does seem silly to cultivate the soil, plant a seed then roll it back down. might as well just plant the seed into the already firm soil if conditions allow.
- Location
- Vale of Belvoir
In my mind CTF is not a religion, if there is an obvious reason to have to go at an angle then you do so! The whole idea is to reduce your trafficked area by as much as you can/want to do. This might be only a couple of operations or it might be everything. It doesn't cost the earth if you take it slowly. RTK brings massive benefits other than being able to run in CTF.
Personally my view is why drive on it if you can get away from doing so.
It's a management tool, to know where you have driven and firm up the areas that you do. Then when you get a year like 2012 and are making a mess because you have to harvest your milling wheat you can keep wheels to a minimum and in my case every 3 breeds is a tramline and my chaser never has to leave it. Yes i'm sure no-till firms up the soil so CTF is maybe not as important. but I have seen a long term no-tiller in 2012 make a huge mess with his combine. I wouldn't go to no-til without the aid of CTF.
We share farm with a lot of land owners who love subsoil and deep tillage. for me to get them to want to move to a reduce tillage or even no-till I have to try and change there mind set. CTF is helping this massively!
Will, My maize and rye silage will be harvested in CTF and if down the road I do some form of grass this to will be CTF. I have all the basics so its only a case of trying to get stuff to fit 6 12 and 36m which are common widths.
Personally my view is why drive on it if you can get away from doing so.
It's a management tool, to know where you have driven and firm up the areas that you do. Then when you get a year like 2012 and are making a mess because you have to harvest your milling wheat you can keep wheels to a minimum and in my case every 3 breeds is a tramline and my chaser never has to leave it. Yes i'm sure no-till firms up the soil so CTF is maybe not as important. but I have seen a long term no-tiller in 2012 make a huge mess with his combine. I wouldn't go to no-til without the aid of CTF.
We share farm with a lot of land owners who love subsoil and deep tillage. for me to get them to want to move to a reduce tillage or even no-till I have to try and change there mind set. CTF is helping this massively!
Will, My maize and rye silage will be harvested in CTF and if down the road I do some form of grass this to will be CTF. I have all the basics so its only a case of trying to get stuff to fit 6 12 and 36m which are common widths.
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Here's the myth in action, guess where the sugar beet clamp was.
An extreme example, there is no doubt in extreme traffic situations it exists and needs physical repair
however saw this on twiter the other day showing better mang take up in old wheeling
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Not compaction if effect is beneficial...
The correct amount of air I think is a better description, I'm sure this is why surface OM is so important as it maintains that correct balance for you
It would be interesting to see if there is a way of measuring air in the soil in these poor patches and what that air is made up of and perhaps also what ratio of normal soil minerals are present, after all just because you drag a subsoiler through the ground does not mean you relieve the "tightness" in the whole profile but it does help air in
mikep
Member
- Location
- Arse end of Surrey, UK
Is that compaction or a destroyed soil. It doesnt need to be compacted to grow nowt. Most things like that I have seen have been where wheelings were bad and soil pulled about to try to rectify, not the compaction that caused the poor growing but response to.
If you abuse soil for no matter what reason it will damage it and it can be levelled and look good but is still lifeless and will not produce a crop.
my question was not is it possible to make a mess but was 'Compaction' the big bad bogey man the metal sellers have us believe?
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Nothing done save for drilling. Should have been flatlifted. Interestingly, the peas looked fine for the first couple of months, then just stopped.
common misconception that ctf is expensive, the most publicised ctf system is one in cambridge where he obviously went all out and spent a vast sum of money in one year getting his system to work instantly, if you spread it out over 3-4 years as machinery comes up for replacement it shouldn't be too bad. you also don't need guidance in everything, a carting/chasing tractor can just manually drive on the combine wheelings if you want to save some money. i do think you have to be flexible with it. my main worry about it is chaff build up, i don't think a 12m combine will spread chaff the full width and after 5 years you would surly see a build up?
mikep
Member
- Location
- Arse end of Surrey, UK
Maybe but why bother? Dont seem to be any tangible results as yet, everyone seems to be waiting for them to arrive. I may be wrong and in future years could be massive benefits but I am doubtful, I have seen these trends come and go over the years they come in with a great fanfare and bow out slowly with a fart a few years later and leave you a bit poorer but sometimes none the wiser. What happened to CTF first time around?