Would this be wrong ?

Clever Dic · Aug 19, 2014

I now firmly prefer to DD my grass reseeds (every 2 years) however due to the amount of traffic and with 1st cut being done with moist soil conditions early on I am running through the sprayed of stubbles at an angle with my Erth grassland subsoiler . I am very pleased with the movement and virtually no surface soil disturbance but it does leave it wavy across the surface,this would be fine by next summer if left however I will want to go in with my Moore in 3-4 weeks time to drill.
The question is if I now went in whilst the soil is dry with my rolls would it reduce the waves left by the Erth but still leave me the benefits of what the subsoiling has achieved. Please bare in mind I really do need as flat a surface as possible by next mowing season and the fields can have 3x mowing ,5-6 x tedding ,3x raking ,3x baling plus all the loading of bales so plenty of compaction .
Cheers .

Simon Chiles · Aug 19, 2014

Clever Dic said:
I now firmly prefer to DD my grass reseeds (every 2 years) however due to the amount of traffic and with 1st cut being done with moist soil conditions early on I am running through the sprayed of stubbles at an angle with my Erth grassland subsoiler . I am very pleased with the movement and virtually no surface soil disturbance but it does leave it wavy across the surface,this would be fine by next summer if left however I will want to go in with my Moore in 3-4 weeks time to drill.
The question is if I now went in whilst the soil is dry with my rolls would it reduce the waves left by the Erth but still leave me the benefits of what the subsoiling has achieved. Please bare in mind I really do need as flat a surface as possible by next mowing season and the fields can have 3x mowing ,5-6 x tedding ,3x raking ,3x baling plus all the loading of bales so plenty of compaction .
Cheers .

I would roll. Sub soiling will remove the compaction but IMO you couldn't roll it enough to reinstate structure and level it. I'd also wager with you that rolling will reduce the level of compaction next spring.

SilliamWhale · Aug 20, 2014

Personally I don't rate the Erth subsoiler that much because all its legs are in the same row and so its lifting everything at the same time leaving to a ridgy finish. Its basically a shakerator leg with a longer horizontal area. Its asking a lot of the roller behind to pack it back level when everything is lifted at the same time.

Something like the sumo at least had staggered legs which allows the lifting not to be quite as "heave-like" and puts it back very well (I'm not saying other machines can't do this either but the sumo is a good example).

dazza b · Aug 20, 2014

From personal experience the erth grass subsoiler leaves the best finish out of any of them from having the legs all in a row the heave should also go down naturally that's why it's recommend 2 b done in a back end.

Dan Powell · Aug 20, 2014

How deep is your compaction? Does it really justify a subsoiler?

What about one of these?

awww_fwi_co_uk_assets_getAsset_aspx_991252a1462347cca6d155671b606977._.jpg

I wonder if they have a no till application where there is surface compaction from harvest traffic or sheep grazing in a wet winter?

Or is poking a few holes in the ground a waste of time in terms of relieving compaction?

slaney · Aug 21, 2014

Dan Powell said:
How deep is your compaction? Does it really justify a subsoiler?

What about one of these?

View attachment 63610

I wonder if they have a no till application where there is surface compaction from harvest traffic or sheep grazing in a wet winter?

Or is poking a few holes in the ground a waste of time in terms of relieving compaction?

Proper compaction yes a waste of time aeration of the top couple if inches is all that does surely?

Clever Dic · Aug 21, 2014

So here is phase 1 , had the round up,and the first fields subsoiled are rolled. Next the TSP and maybe a stubble rake before or after drilling. I will add more pics / video as time moves on and see how we do.

Clever Dic · Sep 25, 2014

Well what do they say about the best laid plans. I have had to give up waiting for a little rain all was ready but just needed the top 2 inches to soften plenty of moisture below but the top 2 inches far too hard for the Moore,time getting critical for grass seed and no rain forecast so.......

Yes it hurts but at least its in the ground and in moisture. Best to remain having the flexibility at the end of the day.

SilliamWhale · Sep 26, 2014

Clever Dic said:
Well what do they say about the best laid plans. I have had to give up waiting for a little rain all was ready but just needed the top 2 inches to soften plenty of moisture below but the top 2 inches far too hard for the Moore,time getting critical for grass seed and no rain forecast so.......

Yes it hurts but at least its in the ground and in moisture. Best to remain having the flexibility at the end of the day.

In a way your choice of drill hampered your chances to direct drill that.

marco · Sep 26, 2014

Would it not have been easier to disk it?

Clever Dic · Sep 26, 2014

What drill would you have thought might be right..? I need close row spacing.

York · Sep 26, 2014

Clever Dic said:
What drill would you have thought might be right..? I need close row spacing.

stadart situation for a NZ designed Cross Slot drill. Over 50% of their drilling down in NZ is done under such circumstances.
I understand, life is full of compromises.
Now if you compaction issue is a regular issue I would also do some investigation on the Ca & Mg saturation to find out if there is a road to solving.
Other thing, are you able to graze? what are your winter like? because when I click on Melton as your location google comes up with a location in Germany. So I should than start to converse in German to you?

York-Th.

SilliamWhale · Sep 26, 2014

Clever Dic said:
What drill would you have thought might be right..? I need close row spacing.

Well where you are compromised with you moore is that

A. you need lots of downpressure for the discs to penetrate
B. the more downpressure you use it has implications for depth and slot closing.

When you get these situations it really helps to be able to have depth separate to slot closing and both independent of downpressure.

But on close row spacing I have no answer.

Will Blackburn · Sep 30, 2014

SilliamWhale said:
Well where you are compromised with you moore is that

A. you need lots of downpressure for the discs to penetrate
B. the more downpressure you use it has implications for depth and slot closing.

When you get these situations it really helps to be able to have depth separate to slot closing and both independent of downpressure.

But on close row spacing I have no answer.

For me on grass I don't want the slot closing, the disc opens the earth so the seed lands on dirt, if you start closing the slot IMO the seed will be too deep.

SilliamWhale · Sep 30, 2014

Will Blackburn said:
For me on grass I don't want the slot closing, the disc opens the earth so the seed lands on dirt, if you start closing the slot IMO the seed will be too deep.

Well that's easily altered - you have the choice

I agree on grass - it just needs a touch of earth and little else.

In my situation closing the slot has no relationship with drilling depth. But you can choose how agressively you may want to close the slot too.

Mark C · Oct 5, 2014

SilliamWhale said:
Well where you are compromised with you moore is that

A. you need lots of downpressure for the discs to penetrate
B. the more downpressure you use it has implications for depth and slot closing.

When you get these situations it really helps to be able to have depth separate to slot closing and both independent of downpressure.

But on close row spacing I have no answer.

So after this weekend 's and Mondays rain I hope to get my Moore into the ground to reseed some IRG.
If I leave the slot open do I flat roll after or just let the press wheels do the work. When I tried before the rain I had all the weight on the discs to get penetration. Coulter running 20mm above the edge of the disc or should I try lowering the coulter so it's nearer the disc edge to get a bit more tilth?

sleepy · Oct 5, 2014

Will Blackburn said:
For me on grass I don't want the slot closing, the disc opens the earth so the seed lands on dirt, if you start closing the slot IMO the seed will be too deep.

The drilling depth with ryegrass doesn't seem to make much difference, we have accidentally drilled at corn depth before and it still grew just the same.

SilliamWhale · Oct 5, 2014

Mark C said:
So after this weekend 's and Mondays rain I hope to get my Moore into the ground to reseed some IRG.
If I leave the slot open do I flat roll after or just let the press wheels do the work. When I tried before the rain I had all the weight on the discs to get penetration. Coulter running 20mm above the edge of the disc or should I try lowering the coulter so it's nearer the disc edge to get a bit more tilth?

I think given that we now have moisture and that its grass whatever you do it will probably grow.

Clever Dic · Oct 11, 2014

Well let's see how we go ,I wouldn't want to be later but ground is warm and I put 20 KG of N on just ahead of the rain. Nice and mild would be good for grass establishment but early cold winter is good for sales .

Clever Dic · Oct 18, 2014

Well being not too set in my ways has resulted in getting grass away and looking ok it may not have been the way I wanted it but the result is . We did DD the last 60!acres after the rain and after the Erth it went in the best I have ever DD it created quite a lot of tilth but is later,I will post pictures to compare hoping mild weather holds and grass makes it. Now been in a week.

Would this be wrong ?

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