CAP Welsh Clarity

Penllyn estate farm · Aug 27, 2014

Hi All,

At present entitlements in Wales are allocated according to what hectares were farmed and livestock held from 2000-2002. Is it correct that from 2015, there is a gradual switchover, 20% per year, from that formula to one based on the hectares actually farmed in 2015?

Many thanks,
Damien

SilliamWhale · Aug 28, 2014

I think it could be based on ha farmed in 2014 but not sure. It starts in 2015 though so this is the last year of the historic one I think.

But strictly speaking entitlements aren't totally based on what ha and livestock were farmed in 2000-2002. It became a mish mash a while ago but they were originally issues like that.

neilo · Aug 28, 2014

Essentially yes. What you, or your grandfather, used to farm once upon a time will be irrelevant to the SFP you get. Between 2015 and 2019, those payments will move towards a level payment based purely on area farmed each year. Not before time, IMHO.

Derrick Hughes · Aug 30, 2014

how will the old value be allocated next year, will it be acre for acre, will they be attached to new ones ???

SilliamWhale · Sep 11, 2014

New forms on greening today.

Strange old system really. If you have no arable land you have no need for greening. Well some arable land can be very good in the middle of farm after farm of pure improved grassland.

Derrick Hughes · Sep 15, 2014

As I understand and have been told the old SFP value will be added to your new claim with no regard to old acres looks Ilike I was correct and @IANTO was perhaps a bit confused with what I said!!

IANTO · Sep 16, 2014

neilo said:
Essentially yes. What you, or your grandfather, used to farm once upon a time will be irrelevant to the SFP you get. Between 2015 and 2019, those payments will move towards a level payment based purely on area farmed each year. Not before time, IMHO.

Not exactly correct.

You will get Basic Area Entitlements for what you declare in 2015 which will become a level payment by 2019.

These New Entitlements will be trade-able and can be bought and sold.

You will need a Hectare in the appropriate Land Classification Category to activate one 1 entitlement every year.

If you reduce your hectares you have to sell of lose the entitlements.

If you increase your hectares, you will have to buy entitlements if you wish to maximise your SFP.

You do not automatically get paid on every hectare declared each year after 2015 if the hectares declared are more than the 2015 figure.

Ianto

IANTO · Sep 16, 2014

SilliamWhale said:
New forms on greening today.

Strange old system really. If you have no arable land you have no need for greening. Well some arable land can be very good in the middle of farm after farm of pure improved grassland.

I haven't seen them.

Probably they have only been sent to farmers who declared arable land in 2014.

Ianto

SilliamWhale · Sep 16, 2014

IANTO said:
I haven't seen them.

Probably they have only been sent to farmers who declared arable land in 2014.

Ianto

Yes only arable boys seem to be under the cosh with this one!

IANTO · Sep 16, 2014

Forage Trader said:
As I understand and have been told the old SFP value will be added to your new claim with no regard to old acres looks like I was correct and @IANTO was perhaps a bit confused with what I said!!

Until I see it in Black and White I don't believe you.

Everyone in WAG Agricultural Department gives different answers, and no-one seems to know.

I can't believe that you will be allowed to Stack old Entitlement Value on fewer acres.

If what you say is true, a farmer could sell his say 500 acre farm on which he claims say 200K in SFP at present, and hold back say 10 Hectares and be paid £200K reducing on 10 Hectares.

It goes against the whole theory of devising a fairer system!

Ianto

Thick Farmer · Sep 16, 2014

IANTO said:
Until I see it in Black and White I don't believe you.

Everyone in WAG Agricultural Department gives different answers, and no-one seems to know.

I can't believe that you will be allowed to Stack old Entitlement Value on fewer acres.

If what you say is true, a farmer could sell his say 500 acre farm on which he claims say 200K in SFP at present, and hold back say 10 Hectares and be paid £200K reducing on 10 Hectares.

It goes against the whole theory of devising a fairer system!

Ianto

I was told that you can stack them in a meeting last week, but why bother as they will still decrease in value over the next 5 years until they reach the area based value.

7610 super q · Sep 16, 2014

Well this is starting to sound just like the current historical system.

SilliamWhale · Sep 16, 2014

7610 super q said:
Well this is starting to sound just like the current historical system.

Because they're taking base years it will. They shouldnt be taking base years. I can see no need to keep taking them as arbitrary guides to how to pay subsidy.

Derrick Hughes · Sep 16, 2014

Thick Farmer said:
I was told that you can stack them in a meeting last week, but why bother as they will still decrease in value over the next 5 years until they reach the area based value.

Should have bought bought bought,
if you have less acres stacking will help as you would lose that bit of the payment

Thick Farmer · Sep 16, 2014

Forage Trader said:
Should have bought bought bought,
if you have less acres stacking will help as you would lose that bit of the payment

I've decided to 'stack' them on the owned land by moving all owned land in to one CRN and all the rented land onto the other CRN.

tanker · Sep 17, 2014

I don't think that's right(adding the two claims)..If it is,then you've made me a happy man..As I understand it,they had the option of discarding the old system and allocating everybody according to the number&type of Ha they claim on..For some people that would be a huge loss of income so to soften the blow those that stand to lose going to the new system will be given a softer landing over 5yrs,tapered by 20% a year.
There's a payment received in 2014 and there's a payment calculated the new way from now on,if you're to gain then you'll gain straight away,if you're to lose then move the new figure to 2019 and reduce one down to the other by a fifth a year is how understand it.

Thick Farmer · Sep 17, 2014

tanker said:
I don't think that's right(adding the two claims)..If it is,then you've made me a happy man..As I understand it,they had the option of discarding the old system and allocating everybody according to the number&type of Ha they claim on..For some people that would be a huge loss of income so to soften the blow those that stand to lose going to the new system will be given a softer landing over 5yrs,tapered by 20% a year.
There's a payment received in 2014 and there's a payment calculated the new way from now on,if you're to gain then you'll gain straight away,if you're to lose then move the new figure to 2019 and reduce one down to the other by a fifth a year is how understand it.

As I understand it, the transition is over 5 years weather you gain or loose.

tanker · Sep 17, 2014

I won't argue on that one but I didn't understand it that way...The scale of re-distribution does show why Cardiff has always tried to steer clear of area based payment but now they've no choice..

Derrick Hughes · Sep 25, 2014

Well there trying to root out the slipper men, invoices for work you have done wanted

Thick Farmer · Sep 29, 2014

Is it mandatory to fill out the FM4 for the EFA areas on the farm even if you are exempt due to growing over 75% grass?

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