Griping Farmers..

Thick Farmer · Oct 20, 2014

I often buy milk to take with me in the car.

Why haven't any of the milk sellers noticed that a pint bottle of milk won't fit in a standard cup holder? All other drinks manufacturers have cottend on!

Blue. · Oct 20, 2014

Thick Farmer said:
I often buy milk to take with me in the car.

Why haven't any of the milk sellers noticed that a pint bottle of milk won't fit in a standard cup holder? All other drinks manufacturers have cottend on!

Milk shakes generally fit,but they are usually foreign milk.

Blue. · Oct 20, 2014

Walterp said:
Alternative View: UK dairy farmers like to look elsewhere in the supply chain for imperfections and dysfunction, but the harsh truth is that the principal dysfunction is within the primary sector itself - UK dairy farmers wanna milk more cows, both in good times and in bad, so that the market signals described in the (technically accurate, but factually inaccurate) post above just don't get through.

Peter Clawson's (and David Handley's, and Rabobank's) analysis is spot-on.

Conclusion: UK dairy farmers are in denial, 'cos they can only see as far as the next milk cheque.

Short Version: Nobody ever wants to milk less cows, do they?

What would your solution be?

hillman · Oct 20, 2014

If you want to protest do it outside the Nfu and all the boards that take your levies !
Reason demand proper media action , showing costs off production and end cost ? As said previous get milk sexy
No use blocking plants as smcapstick said with fancy tractors you are trying to get your message across to house wife who's trying to balance the pennies and wants a reason to spend and support local foods , not be peed off by what she sees

Afraid this also ties into the footpath thread as if we loose the rag the message is raving greedy farmers, I won't bother supporting them ! ( sorry if it offends but looking at the bigger picture it death by a thousand cuts! And afraid I've no experience off footpaths , but I do feel for you that have them)

It's all about perception nowadays , what people see not what actually is happening

Farming needs to get more media Savey , time to loosen the purse strings and get a big PR company in to market uk food and sell its story !

Walterp · Oct 20, 2014

eulb said:
What would your solution be?

Everyone thinks that 'problems' have 'solutions', but that's not always true - sometimes, problems just have outcomes.

My neighbour, who knows more about milk production than most people, reckons that the milk price went too high and has encouraged production trends that can only be curbed by a blood-bath.

A milk-bath?

Anyway, you get the idea - anyone who fancies going into milk production should start tidying up their place for sale, so's they can buy a ready-made dairy unit when they start coming available in a few years' time.

Me? I wouldn't underestimate the resilience of dairy farms - they'll just get accustomed to lower returns.

glasshouse · Oct 20, 2014

Hampton said:
I don't think the value of the kit is relevant, it's a work tool. Sometimes it is cheaper not to have stuff that breaks down.
With regards to the advertising side the "it's what Ian Rush drinks" ad of the 80's is one of the most popular ever.
It does make you wonder whether we need to gang up on the levy boards (in all aspects of farming), stop them wasting money on the crap they do, and insist that at least 75% of their revenue goes in to advertising.

You are quite right, but joe public sees a tractor as an accessory, like a car that sits in the driveway for weekend use, not an essential.. They dont understand that new ones are often cheaper to run, they only see the £80k price tag, and never consider that they are all on HP.

Gilchro · Oct 20, 2014

glasshouse said:
If i go into a shop to buy lunch, there is never a milk drink in the cold cabinet at the front where the kids buy their lunch, you have to go down the back of the store and buy a half litre container. Very poor marketing.

Yes but no!

Retailers have put the cold cabinet at the front to tempt people looking to shoot through for lunch in the door. This means they build a "relationship" with that particular consumer. Once the relationship is established, the idea is that person sees all other bargains available and returns for the weekly shop.

Milk, on the other hand, is a staple good. Everyone buys it. That means that most consumers coming in the door will be buying some and indeed a lot will be in purely to buy milk.
You then have to ask a question, is it better to have the milk at the door so the consumer can grab a carton and go or buried at the back of the shop so you have to walk past all of the offers to get to it (ever noticed bread is also in the far corner too)?

If you want to drive the perception of milk as a convenient drink that you have with a sandwich or slug down after a heavy gym session, the current packaging and branding are p*ssing up a rope. Milk for this market needs to be branded in a similar manner as the soft drinks/waters that it wants to depose.

It also needs to be put in to a carton that is a bloody sight more attractive to drink from.....

The problem is this is not a solution that will return a result this year or probably not even next year. The dominance of a brand takes time, effort and patience.

Of course, if you step right back and look at the big picture (really big picture) there is a growing body of research showing that current dietary advice is on a bit of a shaky peg and high carbohydrate, low fat diets are attracting a lot of criticism. In America (where most consumer trends start at the moment) butter sales are rising at a relatively high rate, at the expense of low fat spread. This would suggest a move back towards diets containing higher levels of animal fats.
That being the case, if I were a dairy company, I would be creating a number of convenient, branded 500ml milk drinks (and I don't mean garbage like Yazoo milk shakes) to go on the shelf now. These could then ride on the back of the inevitable acceptance on this side of the Atlantic of dairy produce.

Monty · Oct 20, 2014

eulb said:
What would your solution be?

Simple cut spring calving herd's price by 10p or increase seasonality . This price cut was inevitable but the most annoying part is the timing of it which cancels out any sesonality. We are getting a bit sick of subsidizing these farmers flooding the market with cheap spring milk when level producers are naturally producing more then and our milk buyer has finally realised they can buy cheap spot milk in the spring and has 3 separate contracts now depending on the % produced in summer and winter.

In all honesty I think a price squeeze will do the industry good in the long term squeezing out the greedy fools giving silly rent for land travelling miles for silage and maize. A lot of these issues have been brought on by greed pure and simple.

roscoe erf · Oct 20, 2014

Walterp said:
Everyone thinks that 'problems' have 'solutions', but that's not always true - sometimes, problems just have outcomes.

My neighbour, who knows more about milk production than most people, reckons that the milk price went too high and has encouraged production trends that can only be curbed by a blood-bath.

A milk-bath?

Anyway, you get the idea - anyone who fancies going into milk production should start tidying up their place for sale, so's they can buy a ready-made dairy unit when they start coming available in a few years' time.

Me? I wouldn't underestimate the resilience of dairy farms - they'll just get accustomed to lower returns.

so basically you reap what you sow

Walterp · Oct 20, 2014

roscoe erf said:
so basically you reap what you sow

I wouldn't be quite so judgemental - maybe a clearer way of putting it'd be 'what types of outfit are best-placed to withstand a sustained period of below-trend returns?'

glasshouse · Oct 20, 2014

roscoe erf said:
so basically you reap what you sow

The current surplus of milk cannot be helped, any more than the shortage we had 2 years ago, all due to weather.
The strong pound is the real cuprit, along with predatory supermarkets.
Milk prices should be set by govt to give the farmer a decent return.

Gilchro · Oct 20, 2014

glasshouse said:
The current surplus of milk cannot be helped, any more than the shortage we had 2 years ago, all due to weather.
The strong pound is the real cuprit, along with predatory supermarkets.
Milk prices should be set by govt to give the farmer a decent return.

Never going to happen though.

Government economic policy requires low inflation. Predatory supermarkets driving down the cost of daily staples maintains low inflation. Add to that the fact it would be a blatant market intervention and the EU would be up in arms (and probably many of our other trading nations, such as NZ, US, Canada etc.). This would jeopardize trade deals worth many times more than current agricultural output.

Until food security moves up the political agenda (couple of decades away looking at the current situation) then there will be no change to the position of farmers in the political landscape.

Also, did anyone notice that even David Handley has said there is too much milk around?

Hampton · Oct 20, 2014

Gilchro said:
Yes but no!

Retailers have put the cold cabinet at the front to tempt people looking to shoot through for lunch in the door. This means they build a "relationship" with that particular consumer. Once the relationship is established, the idea is that person sees all other bargains available and returns for the weekly shop.

Milk, on the other hand, is a staple good. Everyone buys it. That means that most consumers coming in the door will be buying some and indeed a lot will be in purely to buy milk.
You then have to ask a question, is it better to have the milk at the door so the consumer can grab a carton and go or buried at the back of the shop so you have to walk past all of the offers to get to it (ever noticed bread is also in the far corner too)?

If you want to drive the perception of milk as a convenient drink that you have with a sandwich or slug down after a heavy gym session, the current packaging and branding are p*ssing up a rope. Milk for this market needs to be branded in a similar manner as the soft drinks/waters that it wants to depose.

It also needs to be put in to a carton that is a bloody sight more attractive to drink from.....

The problem is this is not a solution that will return a result this year or probably not even next year. The dominance of a brand takes time, effort and patience.

Of course, if you step right back and look at the big picture (really big picture) there is a growing body of research showing that current dietary advice is on a bit of a shaky peg and high carbohydrate, low fat diets are attracting a lot of criticism. In America (where most consumer trends start at the moment) butter sales are rising at a relatively high rate, at the expense of low fat spread. This would suggest a move back towards diets containing higher levels of animal fats.
That being the case, if I were a dairy company, I would be creating a number of convenient, branded 500ml milk drinks (and I don't mean garbage like Yazoo milk shakes) to go on the shelf now. These could then ride on the back of the inevitable acceptance on this side of the Atlantic of dairy produce.

I agree with you there. I am not a dairy farmer, but one of the things that annoys me most about supermarkets is that they say the price of milk indices people into the supermarket as everyone has to have it, and yet they put it as far from the door as they can. Some people fall for the Bs and say "oh yes that's so you buy other stuff on your way to get the milk". But if the majority of people in supermarkets have a trolley, and that trolley is full by the time they get to the milk section, how many do you think either don't buy the milk, or leave their shopping where it is and walk out declaring they won't buy anything because the cost of milk is too high! I think you can count them on the fingers of your foot!

Hampton · Oct 20, 2014

Sorry, got a bit carried away there.
What I am trying to say is this:
When you go into a supermarket you will see beer on offer in the doorway. It's there so people can see it and they are more likely to impulse buy it than go down the beer aisle to see the offer. I do not believe the same market principles apply to milk (as I have described in previous post).
Therefore I don't think they need to use milk as a fighting product, it is just an easy target.

Gilchro · Oct 20, 2014

Hampton said:
I agree with you there. I am not a dairy farmer, but one of the things that annoys me most about supermarkets is that they say the price of milk indices people into the supermarket as everyone has to have it, and yet they put it as far from the door as they can. Some people fall for the Bs and say "oh yes that's so you buy other stuff on your way to get the milk". But if the majority of people in supermarkets have a trolley, and that trolley is full by the time they get to the milk section, how many do you think either don't buy the milk, or leave their shopping where it is and walk out declaring they won't buy anything because the cost of milk is too high! I think you can count them on the fingers of your foot!

Hampton said:
Sorry, got a bit carried away there.
What I am trying to say is this:
When you go into a supermarket you will see beer on offer in the doorway. It's there so people can see it and they are more likely to impulse buy it than go down the beer aisle to see the offer. I do not believe the same market principles apply to milk (as I have described in previous post).
Therefore I don't think they need to use milk as a fighting product, it is just an easy target.

@Hampton would totally agree that the price of milk bears no reflection on customer loyalty but at the same time, the cost of the overall basket does, just look at the rise of the discounters.

My original point around the milk being buried in the store is that they don't want to offer milk in the sandwich cabinets at the front so you are drawn in to the shop if all you are after is milk.
I regularly go in to a shop on my way home for milk and only milk and I'm sure many people are the same. The burying of milk at the back of the shop is not for the weekly/monthly shopper with a trolley full, it is for eejits like me that are unable to decide how much milk I need for the week and end up buying more midweek because I got it wrong.
They want me to wander past some doughnuts on the way to the chiller cabinet, pick them up and get some flowers for the wife and a pack of yoghurts........... and instead of £1 for the carton of milk, suddenly I've spent £20 (I don't by the way, cause I know their dirty tricks

)

DRC · Oct 20, 2014

Chap on radio Shropshire this morning. A Mr Madeley from Bridgenorth I believe , who was talking about having to sell his herd due to low prices. He was also stuffed because he didn't have volume, as was only milking 75 cows, and was in an area with few other dairy farms.
Saddest thing was him saying that the cows had been his life, to the extent he'd put them before his wife and family, and his wife was once asked if she had a husband, as he'd never been seen at any function!
He was going to get a job milking someone else's cows.

glasshouse · Oct 20, 2014

Gilchro said:
Never going to happen though.

Government economic policy requires low inflation. Predatory supermarkets driving down the cost of daily staples maintains low inflation. Add to that the fact it would be a blatant market intervention and the EU would be up in arms (and probably many of our other trading nations, such as NZ, US, Canada etc.). This would jeopardize trade deals worth many times more than current agricultural output.

Until food security moves up the political agenda (couple of decades away looking at the current situation) then there will be no change to the position of farmers in the political landscape.

Also, did anyone notice that even David Handley has said there is too much milk around?

Screw the EU, we need US style anti gouging laws to prevent stuff being sold below cost.

Will Blackburn · Oct 20, 2014

Monty said:
Simple cut spring calving herd's price by 10p or increase seasonality . This price cut was inevitable but the most annoying part is the timing of it which cancels out any sesonality. We are getting a bit sick of subsidizing these farmers flooding the market with cheap spring milk when level producers are naturally producing more then and our milk buyer has finally realised they can buy cheap spot milk in the spring and has 3 separate contracts now depending on the % produced in summer and winter.

In all honesty I think a price squeeze will do the industry good in the long term squeezing out the greedy fools giving silly rent for land travelling miles for silage and maize. A lot of these issues have been brought on by greed pure and simple.

So it's spring calving and large dairy farmers' fault, they tell me it's the little farmers who do it for nothing that ruin the job.

Cows 'n grass · Oct 20, 2014

Walterp said:
Alternative View: UK dairy farmers like to look elsewhere in the supply chain for imperfections and dysfunction, but the harsh truth is that the principal dysfunction is within the primary sector itself - UK dairy farmers wanna milk more cows, both in good times and in bad, so that the market signals described in the (technically accurate, but factually inaccurate) post above just don't get through.

Peter Clawson's (and David Handley's, and Rabobank's) analysis is spot-on.

Conclusion: UK dairy farmers are in denial, 'cos they can only see as far as the next milk cheque.

Short Version: Nobody ever wants to milk less cows, do they?

I'd quite like to milk fewer cows actually.

I think people are overplaying the number of new entrants in the industry. Even including the new entrants there are still nearly 500 fewer herds in the UK today than there were 12 months ago.

If there is such a massive surplus of milk in the UK then why do we have a £1.5bn annual trade deficit on dairy products? The over supply is a global issue and has very little to do with the current UK milk flow. ARLA's presence in the UK has well and truly linked our price to the world price. I still nearly firmly believe that this is a good thing.............just not today.

Henarar · Oct 20, 2014

glasshouse said:
Screw the EU, we need US style anti gouging laws to prevent stuff being sold below cost.

Had to goggle it but that looks like it is used to stop the price being to high not to low

Griping Farmers..

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

Share this page