Standing crop of Willows

cowboysupper · Oct 21, 2014

About 10 years ago we got involved in an initiative set up by our local creamery to plant willows for biomass. A number of farmers signed up to supply biomass to the creamery which they would then use to reduce their energy costs. That was the plan anyway, didn't really work out. They creamery took one harvest from all of us, then decided it was costing them too much to dry the biomass and it wasn't cost effective. The second harvest the creamery organised a harvester and transport for the willow to a power station in ROI.

We are now approaching the third harvest this winter and the creamery no longer want anything to do with them

. Some of the farmers ripped them out after the last harvest, others like ourselves for better or worse held on to them.

Its not much but we have 8 acres of willow standing at the minute which will require a home and we are assessing our options. We are aware of one contractor who buys standing crops @ £600/acre approx. I understand the payment is spread over 3 years so £200/acre each year (as long as they don't go belly up!).

Has anyone had similar experiences and are there any further options which we should be looking at?

Would love to install a drying floor etc and dry all our grain using our own willow, however with a modest 200 acres of cereals, I really don't think the investment would be warranted.

glasshouse · Oct 21, 2014

cowboysupper said:
About 10 years ago we got involved in an initiative set up by our local creamery to plant willows for biomass. A number of farmers signed up to supply biomass to the creamery which they would then use to reduce their energy costs. That was the plan anyway, didn't really work out. They creamery took one harvest from all of us, then decided it was costing them too much to dry the biomass and it wasn't cost effective. The second harvest the creamery organised a harvester and transport for the willow to a power station in ROI.

We are now approaching the third harvest this winter and the creamery no longer want anything to do with them. Some of the farmers ripped them out after the last harvest, others like ourselves for better or worse held on to them.

Its not much but we have 8 acres of willow standing at the minute which will require a home and we are assessing our options. We are aware of one contractor who buys standing crops @ £600/acre approx. I understand the payment is spread over 3 years so £200/acre each year (as long as they don't go belly up!).

Has anyone had similar experiences and are there any further options which we should be looking at?

Would love to install a drying floor etc and dry all our grain using our own willow, however with a modest 200 acres of cereals, I really don't think the investment would be warranted.

And your drains will all be choked.
Willow is the stupidest idea ever in our wet climate.I said that from the start.

renewablejohn · Oct 21, 2014

What size diameter is it at the base and how tall is it. Can you install a polytunnel on site for drying?.

cowboysupper · Oct 22, 2014

glasshouse said:
And your drains will all be choked.
Willow is the stupidest idea ever in our wet climate.I said that from the start.

They were poorly drained fields to begin with. I would have thought that 12 years of willow would have had a positive impact on the natural ability of the soil to drain itself, given the root structure of the willow and the mass of organic matter which will have fallen on the land over the past 12 years?

cowboysupper · Oct 22, 2014

renewablejohn said:
What size diameter is it at the base and how tall is it. Can you install a polytunnel on site for drying?.

Haven't been in the fields in a while so not sure how wide it is at the base. It could be 25ft in some parts of the field. Just over 20ft on average I would estimate. Is there a way of projecting yield based on base diameter and height?

Already have polytunnels for our cut flower business and would imagine it would be no problem installing another if it was worth it. Are you suggesting the willow could be cut into rods and dried in a polytunnel?

suffolksmallholder · Oct 22, 2014

A friend purchased a 400Kw wood chip burner to dry grass and he tips anything into this to run it when it is needed. Willow when dry would burn. The drying side is done firstly on concrete and then in towers made from fence net or behind a big straw wall in a barn. Each with the same tubes that are poked into wheat/barley with a suck-air system to move the air and keep the heap cool. He is a recognised chip-tip site now and if there is too much of this in his yard Stobarts visit and do chip-away @ £3.00 per ton!
I have a few willow billets in my log pile. It really smells nice when we burn it but it has taken two years to dry!
SS

suffolksmallholder · Oct 22, 2014

You could heat your polytunnels in the winter with your willow if you have a chip burner....
SS

renewablejohn · Oct 22, 2014

cowboysupper said:
Haven't been in the fields in a while so not sure how wide it is at the base. It could be 25ft in some parts of the field. Just over 20ft on average I would estimate. Is there a way of projecting yield based on base diameter and height?

Already have polytunnels for our cut flower business and would imagine it would be no problem installing another if it was worth it. Are you suggesting the willow could be cut into rods and dried in a polytunnel?

Yes we have two polytunnels that have been converted into solar kilns. Harvest the willow into bundles and dry in the polytunnel. Then use a branch logger to cut into 4 inch lengths to make a fuel capable of being burnt on any stove or fuel for your grain dryer. Alternatively get a wood chipper and turn the dry bundles into woodchip fuel but the price will be less than the log option. The secret with willow is getting it dry cheaply which solar kilns are ideal at doing. Let me know if you want advice on solar kiln design your quite welcome to visit ours if your passing.
Yield tables are available hence the reason why I asked the question

Goweresque · Oct 22, 2014

suffolksmallholder said:
Stobarts visit and do chip-away @ £3.00 per ton!
SS

And therein lies the fallacy of willow biomass. Its not even worth b*gger all. And people planted it on the assumption it would be worth 5 or 10 times as much. Here's a DARD paper on Farm Diversification from 2002:

http://eservices.ruralni.gov.uk/pdfs/divbus_ideas/Biomassmk2.pdf

Had some poor sap taken their advice and planted a whole load of it their annual gross income per acre would be c. £15, before any harvesting and drying costs. And have a farm covered in willows, so virtually unsaleable without spending a shed load on getting rid of them. What a great diversification that would have been. I expect the civil servant who wrote that paper has retired now though, on a nice index linked pension. So it all worked out rather nicely for him or her.

renewablejohn · Oct 22, 2014

Its actually worth £100 per dry tonne so very good business for Stobarts if they can buy it for £3 although would be wet so price is more like £6 a dry tonne. Would you sell grain at 20% MC and let them charge you for drying so why do it for willow. There is good money to be made from willow but you need to cut out all the middle men and have your own generating plant.

Goweresque · Oct 22, 2014

renewablejohn said:
Its actually worth £100 per dry tonne so very good business for Stobarts if they can buy it for £3 although would be wet so price is more like £6 a dry tonne. Would you sell grain at 20% MC and let them charge you for drying so why do it for willow. There is good money to be made from willow but you need to cut out all the middle men and have your own generating plant.

I know for a fact that Stobarts only pay £3/tonne collected, as a tree surgeon friend has a big pile and thats all he can get for it. And thats dried, or rather been in the heap long enough to have dried itself out. Clean stuff, all been through his chipper so no stones, stored on concrete, in an old silage clamp. Still only £3/tonne. If its really worth £100/tonne please say where, because my friend will happily pay for a lorry to get it there at that price.

And as for generating electric with it, that lasts as long as the subsidies do, and if there's one thing I've learned in my farming career, its never rely on a market that only exists because of government subsidies. One day the subsidy won't be there, and neither will the market.

renewablejohn · Oct 22, 2014

Goweresque said:
I know for a fact that Stobarts only pay £3/tonne collected, as a tree surgeon friend has a big pile and thats all he can get for it. And thats dried, or rather been in the heap long enough to have dried itself out. Clean stuff, all been through his chipper so no stones, stored on concrete, in an old silage clamp. Still only £3/tonne. If its really worth £100/tonne please say where, because my friend will happily pay for a lorry to get it there at that price.

And as for generating electric with it, that lasts as long as the subsidies do, and if there's one thing I've learned in my farming career, its never rely on a market that only exists because of government subsidies. One day the subsidy won't be there, and neither will the market.

Not going to argue with you as I dont know the quality of your friends woodchip which may only be fit for making compost. As a biomass producer of G30 woodchip the normal price delivered to the power station is around £100 per tonne. It is of no interest to me as my premium G30 W20 sells for far more than that.
The biomass generating market is profitable without subsidy the fact we have subsidies is just the icing on the cake.

Lincsman · Oct 22, 2014

renewablejohn said:
Not going to argue with you as I dont know the quality of your friends woodchip which may only be fit for making compost. As a biomass producer of G30 woodchip the normal price delivered to the power station is around £100 per tonne. It is of no interest to me as my premium G30 W20 sells for far more than that.
The biomass generating market is profitable without subsidy the fact we have subsidies is just the icing on the cake.

What does coal cost delivered to Drax?

renewablejohn · Oct 22, 2014

Lincsman said:
What does coal cost delivered to Drax?

Considerably less even though its brought all the way from Australia and shipped into Immingham. Without biomass Drax would have been closed down years ago. Is only co-firing with biomass that keeps this dinosaur alive without it it could not pass the european emissions regulations.
Might be a bit cynical but some of the coal will be from America as the Americans are dumping coal on the European market due to being awash with fracking gas.

MickMoor · Oct 22, 2014

Bulk coal is much cheaper than bagged from coal merchants. Heard a figure with a 1 in front of it delivered, per tonne! A bout a year ago we built a coal silo for a laundry. It cost them £2,000 more per day to run on oil than coal!

cowboysupper · Oct 22, 2014

renewablejohn said:
Yes we have two polytunnels that have been converted into solar kilns. Harvest the willow into bundles and dry in the polytunnel. Then use a branch logger to cut into 4 inch lengths to make a fuel capable of being burnt on any stove or fuel for your grain dryer. Alternatively get a wood chipper and turn the dry bundles into woodchip fuel but the price will be less than the log option. The secret with willow is getting it dry cheaply which solar kilns are ideal at doing. Let me know if you want advice on solar kiln design your quite welcome to visit ours if your passing.
Yield tables are available hence the reason why I asked the question

These solar kilns sound interesting. I assume it would take a considerable size of polytunnel with good air circulation to dry willow rods in? How long does it take roughly to dry them? And what sort of machine is chopping them to 4 inches?

renewablejohn · Oct 22, 2014

cowboysupper said:
These solar kilns sound interesting. I assume it would take a considerable size of polytunnel with good air circulation to dry willow rods in? How long does it take roughly to dry them? And what sort of machine is chopping them to 4 inches?

This is the type of machine.

http://www.welmacuk.co.uk/urban_tr70.htm

Willow takes approx 3 months to dry in summer and 6 months in winter to achieve below 20% moisture content. My tunnels are 25 mtr x 8 mtr and dry 200 IBC containers at a time.
Tunnels are 90 degree to prevailing wind with no doors on the end and a 1 mtr slope on the ridge to remove moist air without fans.

Willow man · Oct 22, 2014

Their is no reason to store willow in side to dry out if you harvest in rod or billet form as long as you store it correctly if you then are thinking of turning it into chip that becomes a bit more challenging for most biomass boilers . I would suggest staying away from chipping with a forage harvester take a look at strawsons energy/koolfuel web site we grow harvest process and use willow

renewablejohn · Oct 22, 2014

Willow man said:
Their is no reason to store willow in side to dry out if you harvest in rod or billet form as long as you store it correctly if you then are thinking of turning it into chip that becomes a bit more challenging for most biomass boilers . I would suggest staying away from chipping with a forage harvester take a look at strawsons energy/koolfuel web site we grow harvest process and use willow

So what sort of moisture content can you obtain if you dry in rod or billet form outside.

Willow man · Oct 22, 2014

On our good windy sites bellow 25% with our billets.Rods not to sure.I think their is only one whole rod harvester in Cumbria.How are you thinking of harvesting?

Standing crop of Willows

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0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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