- Location
- Bedfordshire
Does Direct drilling reduce the amount of Blackgrass you have on your farm?
Blackgrass reduction with DD
- Thread starter Fuzzy
- Start date
clbarclay
Member
- Location
- Worcestershire
Did you used to know what blackgrass was?
I don't have blackgrass but I do have other grassweeds, DD won't make any difference at all IMO and in some cases even has potential to make things worse even, zero-till will help probably but if you really want rid of grass weeds its mostly about rotation
TBH we've still got it, but I'm much more relaxed now we can control it culturally as well as chemically. Two year leys and lots of spring cropping preceded by cover crops (as Clive says, rotation), as well as minimal soil disturbance, and suddenly there isn't much of it. It loves anaerobic clay, so I think as our soils gain a friable top layer, the BG will wither into the dustbin of history...
Funny you should say that, some of my worst areas are/were absolutely horrible airless wet clay.
Simon Chiles
DD Moderator
- Location
- Surrey/ Kent Border, UK
You'll have to look over the hedge at your neighbours to remind yourself what it was like, the same ones that thought you were nuts when you started dd and wondered why you put a picture of a man in a strange light green outfit opposite the Queen in your local village hall.
SilliamWhale
Member
Well I've never heard you referred to as an old queen before, but if the cap fits....
I didn't put it up...I tell you Simon, he's worshipped like a God here, bit like the Duke of Edinburgh in the South Sea Islands
- Location
- Nr Malvern... SW Worcestershire
So true. We thought we had nailed our BG/Brome problems until the deluges of 2007/08 and 2012/13. If you are farming on free-draining soils such as those in parts of the West Midlands, the Cotswolds, Pembroke
and various chalk soils in the south and east then the build up of BG (and other grass weeds) has not been a problem. But for those of us where water infiltration is a problem so is BG.. The answer I am afraid to say some form of artificial soil re-structuring. A well known machinery manufacturer has been trialling a minimal disturbance soil loosener locally in front of a number of direct-drills and so far the results are very encouraging.. My father says nothing is new ..that is why the Paraplow was developed back in the 1970'sSilliamWhale
Member
So true. We thought we had nailed our BG/Brome problems until the deluges of 2007/08 and 2012/13. If you are farming on free-draining soils such as those in parts of the West Midlands, the Cotswolds, Pembroke
Whilst we are free draining and blackgrass is very unlikely to thrive with me I still think the key is rotational - you out and out arable boys have been taught that everything should be winter crops and must be eaten by a combine by August. The more chaos you can have the better
(as William prepares for draining the DOT4 out of his tractor tomorrow....)so a tool to get out the hedgeSo true. We thought we had nailed our BG/Brome problems until the deluges of 2007/08 and 2012/13. If you are farming on free-draining soils such as those in parts of the West Midlands, the Cotswolds, Pembroke
I wonder if this combination of front "ripper" and DD in the back is not just a short term thing and in the end, let's say in 10 years, you will desperately look down the road as you can't afford it as each time you had to go deeper.
Jim, I just want to encourage you to read once more Hands on Agronomy and do 2 spilt fields for 5 years consequently. As Neal Kinsey said, and I see it on several farms, this BG is a soil structure problem and soil structure is made by soil chemistry. And YES, you can change it.
The pity is that too many are not even doing this trial on 2 split fields for 5 years as they give up after 1 year as they don't see a instant fix.
Look the BG problem wasn't coming up over night, so give it some time to be sorted out as well.
York-Th.
p.s. I'm not after opening a can of forms again.
yellow belly
Member
- Location
- south west lincolnshire
if residual spray is the only option to control in crop weeds then low disturbance drilling will alow the chemical be more effective and keep the early planted wheat free of weeds
but a spring crop will be needed in the rotation
I have also found that kerb works more effectively if the bg only grows from the surface a few plant from depth is all that is needed to keep the problem
but a spring crop will be needed in the rotation
I have also found that kerb works more effectively if the bg only grows from the surface a few plant from depth is all that is needed to keep the problem
- Location
- Bedfordshire
Thanks for your thoughts, what do you suggest as a solution?so a tool to get out the hedge
I wonder if this combination of front "ripper" and DD in the back is not just a short term thing and in the end, let's say in 10 years, you will desperately look down the road as you can't afford it as each time you had to go deeper.
Jim, I just want to encourage you to read once more Hands on Agronomy and do 2 spilt fields for 5 years consequently. As Neal Kinsey said, and I see it on several farms, this BG is a soil structure problem and soil structure is made by soil chemistry. And YES, you can change it.
The pity is that too many are not even doing this trial on 2 split fields for 5 years as they give up after 1 year as they don't see a instant fix.
Look the BG problem wasn't coming up over night, so give it some time to be sorted out as well.
York-Th.
p.s. I'm not after opening a can of forms again.
- Location
- Bedfordshire
I think one mistake we have made is to shallow till(2" is the aim but 3-4" is what has been achieved) the top surface repeatedly and then repeatedly spray off. Each cultivation seams to be bringing up ever increasing amounts of seed. We have one field, Shallow tilled and sprayed off 3 times and it has more grass on it than a golf course.
so this tillage looks like not the option...
I only repeat what I have stated on BFF & TFF numerous times.
1st. we have to understand the conditions of the BG to be around, to favour.
For me this is anaerobic soils. So cold and wet in the spring and big cracks when they fall dry.
On the Kinsey - Albrecht approach, this is the only one I understand, this are the 80 or 90+% Ca & <10% Mg soils.
2nd: we can look if we can change this conditions = besides steel in the field change the soil chemistry.
this can be done and we will start hopefully this year with several fields in GB to work consequently for 3 to 5 years on them to prove the concept.
I will be very surprised if we can't get a big change in this 3 to 5 years.
I already hear the people coming & saying: Can't afford it. OK, but what can we afford as the chemistry of the major chemical suppliers are heading to a dead end, and that is what the companies say to us.
there is also on top of this chemical approach a biological approach, I concentrate on the chemical as this has been done in other regions of this planted and seems to work there, why not on the largest Island in the North Sea.
York-Th.
- Location
- Bedfordshire
Neither of them. Used to have a little Sterile Brome when we first used a 6m Great Plains drill about 12 years ago.
shakerator
Member
- Location
- LINCS
To be honest I went into DD thinking it would help BG. And initially it did, but crops looked hungry on the back of no mineralisation.....so I added fertility in the form of manures and starter ferts, and the BG came back!
Now I DD cos I genuinely find it easier asto what I should or shouldn't be doing.
I'm sure all these stacked residuals are knackering soil life in the top inch.
Spring oats / barley can cope with 10x the blackgrass wheat can
Blackgrass doesn't really compete with beans or decent OSR
Winter cereals don't suit no till on well bodied soils unless you have big summer covers or Knee high OSR vols to get the water out.
Photo below shows (dead) thistles doing their part of structuring and wicking water out....not all weeds are enemies.....
Now I DD cos I genuinely find it easier asto what I should or shouldn't be doing.
I'm sure all these stacked residuals are knackering soil life in the top inch.
Spring oats / barley can cope with 10x the blackgrass wheat can
Blackgrass doesn't really compete with beans or decent OSR
Winter cereals don't suit no till on well bodied soils unless you have big summer covers or Knee high OSR vols to get the water out.
Photo below shows (dead) thistles doing their part of structuring and wicking water out....not all weeds are enemies.....
