Going rate for accepting cables for turbines/solar?

Goweresque · Oct 30, 2014

What the going rate for taking a connection line from the existing electricity poles that cross ones land to a new wind turbine a mile away or so? My sister and b-in-law have been approached by some neighbours where they farm down in Wales regarding having a connection for a 250kw (I think) turbine put across their farm to the grid (the actual connection being on their farm). Total length across their farm would be 800m, in a duct I assume, though not 100% sure about that.

Is the price dependent on the size of turbine, and could you restrict the use to just the turbine proposed, or would agreeing to one tie you in to any future turbines that might be added on at a later date?

MrNoo · Oct 30, 2014

Without the connection the project would have to source a connection elsewhere, so in effect you can charge what you seem fit I would assume. But being greedy would or could make the project a non starter and hence they'd end up with nothing.
I would guess they would have to sign an option assuming planning not already granted and payment received after planning granted?
I am in a similar situation currently but the other way around, fee agreed for access but they are demanding payment on signing the option regardless of planning being approved or not, making the whole project a no go, so back to growing blackgrass and supporting the chemical companies some more for me!!!
As an aside SSE are planning on putting a cable underground through two of our fields, would say 800m or more and the payment received for this was £1500.
Be interesting to see what others say.

SmeatonWoodEnergy · Oct 31, 2014

Goweresque said:
What the going rate for taking a connection line from the existing electricity poles that cross ones land to a new wind turbine a mile away or so? My sister and b-in-law have been approached by some neighbours where they farm down in Wales regarding having a connection for a 250kw (I think) turbine put across their farm to the grid (the actual connection being on their farm). Total length across their farm would be 800m, in a duct I assume, though not 100% sure about that.

Is the price dependent on the size of turbine, and could you restrict the use to just the turbine proposed, or would agreeing to one tie you in to any future turbines that might be added on at a later date?

Hi Goweresque, there is no hard and fast rule here and as MrNoo says it is between parties to agree. Often the best rates for cable easements are gained when a developer has no alternative than to go through a single Landlords land.

If we look at the rates that District Network Operators (DNO) pay to do essentially the same thing (put a cable through/over your land) they only pay a few pence per pole or per meter per annum. However this is often forgotten when private schemes are taking place.

A number of factors can play a part when negotiating an easement e.g. distance, location, terms of the easement, etc. However we tell all Landlords to not settle for anything less than a one off £20 to 25/m for a long cable run. If it is a shorter run rates are normally higher due to the effort/hassle in getting an agreement in place. To get the best rates agree a fee on a success basis only. However cases can vary greatly so best to get specialist advice on a particular case.

Negotiating terms of an easement is very hard as ultimately the DNO need to agree to altering their template (rarely achieved). The reason for this is that the DNO normally own any cable outside of a solar farm or turbine site once the plant is commissioned. Therefore there is little point in trying to agree "lift and shift" etc. Your main negotiation point will be on the location of the easement.

A standard easement will not allow for any additional cables to be installed in the future so you shouldn't have issues of further schemes utilising an existing agreement.

We specialise in helping Landlords get the best easement and solar farm rates and terms, so if you want to know more don't hesitate to contact us.

Best,

Tom
Smeaton Wood Energy Ltd

Goweresque · Oct 31, 2014

Thanks for that. Do I understand it right then that once the cable is installed it becomes the property of the electric co (or National Grid) and it can be used to the maximum of its capacity? Ie if you install a heavier cable than necessary for one turbine, you could then put add additional turbines to it at a later date with no extra fee?

john432 · Oct 31, 2014

If land owners get too greedy,then this might happen! defered??

http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=htt...cQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNEuVPYHq3ilbZAFc4Awb41n5YJP6A

kill · Nov 2, 2014

A project near me has been offering £10 a metre to go across ground inside a road hedge useing a wheel trencher and are happy to use the road if any one says no!!!

Sid · Nov 2, 2014

Just be aware i've let two neighbours put over and underground cables on my land. Now both object to my project. Lucky they got wayleaves or both would be out forth with! Never letting anyone put anything over or under my land again ever. Will point them in the direction of these two numb skulls when quizzed why!

SmeatonWoodEnergy · Nov 3, 2014

Goweresque said:
Thanks for that. Do I understand it right then that once the cable is installed it becomes the property of the electric co (or National Grid) and it can be used to the maximum of its capacity? Ie if you install a heavier cable than necessary for one turbine, you could then put add additional turbines to it at a later date with no extra fee?

In theory yes as long is it does not require any further equipment to laid on your land. However obviously the cable costs will increase on the basis that they get planning for more.

Exfarmer · Nov 4, 2014

As I understand it DNO's have a statutory right of entry anyway if they need it. I believe all the utilities have this up their sleeves

nickf · Nov 8, 2014

Sid said:
Just be aware i've let two neighbours put over and underground cables on my land. Now both object to my project. Lucky they got wayleaves or both would be out forth with! Never letting anyone put anything over or under my land again ever. Will point them in the direction of these two numb skulls when quizzed why!

Can you not serve notice on their wayleaves?

Sid · Nov 8, 2014

nickf said:
Can you not serve notice on their wayleaves?

I don't know..think electric they have a right to pass over? As for private water i don't know.

Goweresque · Nov 9, 2014

Sid said:
I don't know..think electric they have a right to pass over? As for private water i don't know.

As far as I understand it, the cables you have given a wayleave for become the property of the Electric Board once the system is accepted by them, and up and running. They don't remain the property of the person developing the energy scheme. Thus they are the same as any other wayleaves for power lines that cross your land. And you can revoke the wayleave for an existing cable or pylon. The Electric Co can then statutorily enforce getting another wayleave, so there isn't much point usually, other than as a lever to get them to do something you want - move a pole out of the way of a new barn for example. The hassle of getting a new wayleave forced through makes them more likely to agree to do what you want.

However in the case of a new wayleave just signed, presumably there will be clauses in it regarding revocation, possibly the landowner has signed them away in return for the cash consideration, or in some way is constrained from revoking the wayleave, for example by having to repay the cash plus interest or suchlike. You should perhaps study the wayleave document you signed to see if there is any way you can revoke the wayleave (were you minded to do so) and thus gain some leverage over your neighbour's objections about your scheme.

nickf · Nov 9, 2014

On a slightly different situation - we bought some land, I own the entrance drive and a neighbour has right of access, in the deeds it states that in return for this right of access that they can never object to any development or planning proposals submitted. I thought it was neat of the solicitor at the time to include this but not sure how or if it is enforceable.

I would always do something like this if I had to grant access or wayleaves.

henman · Nov 9, 2014

do not be to greedy ,we offered £35 a meter (1000m)plus reinstement costs .He asked for £46 we agreed to this ,Then he change his mind and asked for £65 a meter plus a annual payment of £15000 a year .WE WENT AROUND HIM AND HE HAD NOTHING
(

it's not over · Nov 9, 2014

henman said:
do not be to greedy ,we offered £35 a meter (1000m)plus reinstement costs .He asked for £46 we agreed to this ,Then he change his mind and asked for £65 a meter plus a annual payment of £15000 a year .WE WENT AROUND HIM AND HE HAD NOTHING
(

greed is often confused with ambition

Thick Farmer · Nov 9, 2014

zsnotdead said:
greed is often confused with ambition

In that case, don't be too ambitious or you will get nothing!

Goweresque · Nov 10, 2014

henman said:
do not be to greedy ,we offered £35 a meter (1000m)plus reinstement costs .He asked for £46 we agreed to this ,Then he change his mind and asked for £65 a meter plus a annual payment of £15000 a year .WE WENT AROUND HIM AND HE HAD NOTHING
(

I think my B-in-L has done a deal at considerably less than £35/m, so hopefully he can't be accused of greed.

However there is another way of looking at large demands for money in such cases, it may not be necessarily be greed (tho it probably is

), it could be that someone doesn't want the thing in the first place but doesn't want to say no, so pitches the demand high to make you go elsewhere. Some people don't like saying NO and prefer to do it by proxy.

renewablejohn · Nov 10, 2014

nickf said:
On a slightly different situation - we bought some land, I own the entrance drive and a neighbour has right of access, in the deeds it states that in return for this right of access that they can never object to any development or planning proposals submitted. I thought it was neat of the solicitor at the time to include this but not sure how or if it is enforceable.

I would always do something like this if I had to grant access or wayleaves.

We have something similar. In our case not worth the paper it was written on. Put in for planning on our agri building and they objected even though not allowed to. Complained and received apology from their solicitors by which time damage had been done with Council made aware of neighbors objection.

Alexsmb · Nov 10, 2014

Goweresque said:
As far as I understand it, the cables you have given a wayleave for become the property of the Electric Board once the system is accepted by them, and up and running. They don't remain the property of the person developing the energy scheme. Thus they are the same as any other wayleaves for power lines that cross your land. And you can revoke the wayleave for an existing cable or pylon. The Electric Co can then statutorily enforce getting another wayleave, so there isn't much point usually, other than as a lever to get them to do something you want - move a pole out of the way of a new barn for example. The hassle of getting a new wayleave forced through makes them more likely to agree to do what you want.

However in the case of a new wayleave just signed, presumably there will be clauses in it regarding revocation, possibly the landowner has signed them away in return for the cash consideration, or in some way is constrained from revoking the wayleave, for example by having to repay the cash plus interest or suchlike. You should perhaps study the wayleave document you signed to see if there is any way you can revoke the wayleave (were you minded to do so) and thus gain some leverage over your neighbour's objections about your scheme.

The electricity company owns up to the meter, beyond that it is the consumer. In some schemes it is more cost effective to have a long private line as it can be expensive to get an electricity company to lay cable. I was involved in a discussion over whether to lay a private line or an SSE cable over (well under) my land to get to a community owned mobile mast which I have offered for £1 pa. In the end it was deemed better to spend more on an SSE line as they would be responsible for any problems but this was only possible as it is a government supported project.

nickf · Nov 10, 2014

renewablejohn said:
We have something similar. In our case not worth the paper it was written on. Put in for planning on our agri building and they objected even though not allowed to. Complained and received apology from their solicitors by which time damage had been done with Council made aware of neighbors objection.

That's exactly what I would expect to happen in my situation if I was to apply for change of use. I am not sure how to word these types of clauses to give them more teeth.

Going rate for accepting cables for turbines/solar?

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