new Farmhouse

Bruce Almighty · Oct 31, 2014

A friend of mine wants a house on his farm.
His Dad bought the farm in the late 80s & it has grown from 180 to about 280 acres with purchases of adjoining land. It's mainly arable with about 20 pp & 10 woodland. He has no livestock apart from a few liveries & occasionally sheep in to tidy up.
They have had a mobile home on the farm for about 20 years, with council tax paid on it.

He now has an architect on the case & he has suggested a letter of support from the NFU.
A few years ago my mate fell out with NFU big time, so he was thinking he should use the CLA.

Any suggestions or experiences welcomed

Thanks

Walterp · Oct 31, 2014

He's still living in the 1980's, if he thinks all it needs is a letter of support...

The LPA's official ag tag policy is probably unhelpful, as would be the man hours assessment, and the absence of alternative enterprises, so maybe the best focus isn't on agriculture, but on upgrading/replacing the existing mobile home with either a house or a less permanent fixed dwelling?

Bound to be people on here who've succeeded in that context? In this area, the LPA tended to give PP for a chalet then, if you stuck it for 5 years, allowed a more concrete replacement.

Bruce Almighty · Oct 31, 2014

I think ? The basis is that the mobile home can be upgraded to a house rather than an Ag tag

JP1 · Oct 31, 2014

Bruce Almighty said:
A friend of mine wants a house on his farm.
His Dad bought the farm in the late 80s & it has grown from 180 to about 280 acres with purchases of adjoining land. It's mainly arable with about 20 pp & 10 woodland. He has no livestock apart from a few liveries & occasionally sheep in to tidy up.
They have had a mobile home on the farm for about 20 years, with council tax paid on it.

He now has an architect on the case & he has suggested a letter of support from the NFU.
A few years ago my mate fell out with NFU big time, so he was thinking he should use the CLA.

Any suggestions or experiences welcomed

Thanks

You'd be better off speaking with Will Tong and @blondeagadvisor at Berrys IMHO

Kidds · Oct 31, 2014

There is a rule that the replacement dwelling can bo no more than 30% bigger than the original dwelling. 30% bigger than a mobile home is still smaller than my log shed!
Just be careful how you go about it.

grumpy · Oct 31, 2014

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/grand-designs

Welsh Farmer · Oct 31, 2014

Get in touch with your community council and get their support .... have a site meeting with your planning department and get their support .... lobby the members of the planning council individually and get their support .... these are the three who are likely to object to your application and with the latter they are the ones who are going to grant you permission in the long run so you need to convince them as to your planning merit. I would get letters of support from any bona fide industry organisation because it certainly does no harm and it helped our planning.

S J H · Oct 31, 2014

JP1 said:
You'd be better off speaking with Will Tong and @blondeagadvisor at Berrys IMHO

Exactly, pay for a good agent and not now that you tell what to write and pay for the letterhead. I'd have thought that it would have been reasonably straight forward.

FonterraFarmer · Nov 1, 2014

Do you really have such a big drama with the council to build a house on your own property up there? :scratchhead:

Why should the council dictate what you can do with your own property? or is it just another job creation scheme for a bureauprat in an office?

Kidds · Nov 1, 2014

FonterraFarmer said:
Do you really have such a big drama with the council to build a house on your own property up there?Why should the council dictate what you can do with your own property? or is it just another job creation scheme for a bureauprat in an office?

You are extremely lucky if you get to build a house on your own property.

FonterraFarmer · Nov 1, 2014

Kidds said:
You are extremely lucky if you get to build a house on your own property.

Ffs (No I'm not being sarcastic either) , but over here as long as you meet the councils basic requirements, and there are no logical reasons not to build, get a resorce concent/building permit, and away you go

JD-Kid · Nov 1, 2014

FonterraFarmer said:
Ffs (No I'm not being sarcastic either) , but over here as long as you meet the councils basic requirements, and there are no logical reasons not to build, get a resorce concent/building permit, and away you go

building a shed at the mo 300 meters floor plan shed worth 18 K as a kit set pole and timber just wall on one side and ends down to 2 meters above ground .. covered stock yards
maybe 12-16 K to put up concrete around poles bob the builder etc
3200 for permit
1800 for soil tests on holes

there will be more for water tank timber for yards gates etc etc etc

over 300 square we would of needed a resouce concent which would of added to costs , as it is the shed has had to be upgraded due to being above 240 meters ASL high snow loading and high wind had to do soil tests to check for solid ground put in maps of area showing where roads are bloke next door etc etc

would not make any diffrence if it was a house or a shed as long as you tick the boxes and build to the standard not a prob

there is some by laws if building on land and selling off one shire it's one building per 300 acres so hence yer could put 4 houses on 1200 acres and sell 3 of them keeping the ground but you can sell the ground frist in block's depending on size for building
some areas a 10 acre block can be sold and built on other areas 150 acres + ..... those tend to get leased out as it's too big for 2 ponys and a sheep but too small for an income

JNP · Nov 1, 2014

If your friend is in Herefordshire get a good agent. At the moment there is a loophole they can get a yes via. Its not simple but it works eventually.

rob1 · Nov 1, 2014

Starting point is the fact that he has been paying council tax for 20 yrs so if he has phone bills etc to prove he has lived there they cant get him off after that time, do they have any ag buildings they could use under the new permitted development rules? Government policy says that a house can replace a mobile after three years but this is meant for cases where people are living on a new setup unit, if the council are likely to play up then he needs to say the liveries are injured/recovering race horses etc and have breeding mares to care for etc, its a game and you need to know the rules, and common sense isnt involved in them

yellow belly · Nov 1, 2014

FonterraFarmer said:
Ffs (No I'm not being sarcastic either) , but over here as long as you meet the councils basic requirements, and there are no logical reasons not to build, get a resorce concent/building permit, and away you go

if the local councils gave planning out that easly there would be a free for all in the uk

Landrover · Nov 1, 2014

I wish you the best of luck in getting planning ! It took me three years of fight with the planning dept of the local council, despite letters and meetings of support from the parish council, local councillors and supportive neighbors, despite no objections they turned down the original application, so I applied for a house with a agri tie and after having my business investigated by a 3rd party as part of the planning application including seeing the books from the previous 5 years and business plans etc said I didn't need a house and could move to the nearest town 3 miles away ( incidentally the chap who did that was working his notice at the surveyors he worked for and started to work for the planning dept the day after the report was delivered so it wasn't used in the councils objections as a conflict of interest as meant to be completely independent !) after lots of problems I eventually got my application in front of the county planning committee and was voted in favor of 9 to 1 ! The one who voted against says no to everything apparently ! If I can give some advice from my experience is that planning officers are normally very urban biased, anti farmer and left wing and the decision can be on one persons whim ! As a sort of revenge the planning officers put a condition right at the end of the paper work that a I had to pay for the resufacing of the single track road that went past my new house to council spec ! This was appealed and thrown off the planning conditions and the planning officer responsible for it was severely reprimanded ! Keep going and you will get it !

caveman · Nov 1, 2014

One route, is to get the council housing people to agree that, although there is an established residence, it is actually unfit for habitation and needs replacing to accomodate the family in a fit way.
You could also say there is a need for a substantial farmhouse in the area.
Get pushing for as big as you can.
If there is no ag tie on the caravan (which there probably ain't, else the permission would of been up for assesment and renewal every three years) do not even think of suggesting an ag tie for a house, thinking it will help the cause.
He won't(or shouldn't be able to) get an ag tie on arable anyways, purely because, there is no need to be on site for such an enterprise.

Blue. · Nov 1, 2014

Has anyone put in without an agent and been granted permission?

Locally there has been lots of 2nd houses added onto farms recently.

roscoe erf · Nov 1, 2014

eulb said:
Has anyone put in without an agent and been granted permission?

Locally there has been lots of 2nd houses added onto farms recently.

sssshhhh

rob1 · Nov 1, 2014

caveman said:
One route, is to get the council housing people to agree that, although there is an established residence, it is actually unfit for habitation and needs replacing to accomodate the family in a fit way.
You could also say there is a need for a substantial farmhouse in the area.
Get pushing for as big as you can.
If there is no ag tie on the caravan (which there probably ain't, else the permission would of been up for assesment and renewal every three years) do not even think of suggesting an ag tie for a house, thinking it will help the cause.
He won't(or shouldn't be able to) get an ag tie on arable anyways, purely because, there is no need to be on site for such an enterprise.

They arent allowed to keep giving temp three year approvals now after the first one it is either permanent or nothing now.

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