Hydro-electric >30kw anyone done one?

Joebloggs · Aug 31, 2014

My father is putting in one to sell back to the grid. Apparently its going to cost in region of 230k

He is finding it difficult for funding, and has already 100k to put in, so only looking at the 130k to finance.

Farm is already remortgaged with AMC for another business and they won't extend it as they don't do hydro projects.

The thing I find odd is that approx 40k is for an Approved / Accredited installer to ensure he gets paid for supplying back to the grid. Is this true as Im thinking he is being taken for a "ride" as the first bunch of surveyors he had out that did Hydro schemes were a couple of hippies living out of their van and drew cartoon drawings (seriously!) as the plans and completely miss measured the volume of water. He has at least found some guys who seem professional but are all "known" to each other and aren't an official company.

TIA

chickens and wheat · Aug 31, 2014

there are atleast two on rivers near York approx. 70kw each. both on restored sites of previous turbines. one by the owners admission is a folly and will barely ever turn a decent profit but is an impressive restoration achievement. The other is a commercial concern and is apparently doing well. both are tightly regulated by the environment agency and have to stop when water levels drop below a set point

Joebloggs · Aug 31, 2014

He has no worries regarding water levels and apparently it would be paid for in 5-7 yrs if I recall.

Jim75 · Aug 31, 2014

Not done one but had a quote for a 52kw (too big and analysed wrong area) and that was going to cost in the region of 230k aswell with them doing everything. Waiting on another company coming to get a look at a 25kw now I've got quieter at work

Y Fan Wen · Aug 31, 2014

What sort of head have you got?
I'm not sure that hydro schemes need accredited mcs installers any more.

Exfarmer · Sep 1, 2014

Is it not EA who are biggest problem with these?
There are certainly a lot of chancers in renewables.
Don't make decisions too quick and speak to several companies

Y Fan Wen · Sep 1, 2014

Exfarmer said:
Is it not EA who are biggest problem with these?
There are certainly a lot of chancers in renewables.
Don't make decisions too quick and speak to several companies

Definitely!!!

David@SBA · Sep 5, 2014

If you're in anyway concerned about the flows or output calculated, I'd be happy to carry out a check for you and look at rough ball park figures. I'm working on a few schemes from sub 30kW up to 500kW and am mainly involved in the hydrology and pre planning stage of things. The offer is obviously free, no obligation. I'm away hiking/sea kayaking for a long weekend but I'd be able to look today or early next week.

range rover · Dec 20, 2014

David@SBA said:
If you're in anyway concerned about the flows or output calculated, I'd be happy to carry out a check for you and look at rough ball park figures. I'm working on a few schemes from sub 30kW up to 500kW and am mainly involved in the hydrology and pre planning stage of things. The offer is obviously free, no obligation. I'm away hiking/sea kayaking for a long weekend but I'd be able to look today or early next week.

I don't think you plant should cost that to set up. My site has a head of just over 5 meters and a max power output of 20 Kw, projected to produce 98,000Kw a year ,£20k income , the total cost to set up is around £160k, yours is a larger plant and should cost less per Kw.

David@SBA · Dec 20, 2014

range rover said:
I don't think you plant should cost that to set up. My site has a head of just over 5 meters and a max power output of 20 Kw, projected to produce 98,000Kw a year ,£20k income , the total cost to set up is around £160k, yours is a larger plant and should cost less per Kw.

Making any progress with your scheme? I'm always here to help!

range rover · Dec 21, 2014

David@SBA said:
Making any progress with your scheme? I'm always here to help!

Good morning David,
Yes I am steadily progressing after another agent thought he could clean me, he is history now.
I have all the permissions in place and everything should be go for next year. It's an Ossberger crossflow which appears to be one of the best if not the best.

renewablejohn · Dec 22, 2014

range rover said:
Good morning David,
Yes I am steadily progressing after another agent thought he could clean me, he is history now.
I have all the permissions in place and everything should be go for next year. It's an Ossberger crossflow which appears to be one of the best if not the best.

Have you considered a ram pump after the turbine to recover some of the water for reuse.

range rover · Dec 22, 2014

renewablejohn said:
Have you considered a ram pump after the turbine to recover some of the water for reuse.

A ram pump would be of no benefit, my site is 'run of the river' and I am allowed to use around 600liters a second.

renewablejohn · Dec 22, 2014

range rover said:
A ram pump would be of no benefit, my site is 'run of the river' and I am allowed to use around 600liters a second.

Just thought with you saying it was a Ossberger turbine they normally have a 1/3 2/3 split which suggests you will have insufficient water to run the turbine flat out. A ram pump could recover 10% of your total river flow so could make the difference in running at 2/3 output rather than 1/3 output.

range rover · Dec 22, 2014

renewablejohn said:
Just thought with you saying it was a Ossberger turbine they normally have a 1/3 2/3 split which suggests you will have insufficient water to run the turbine flat out. A ram pump could recover 10% of your total river flow so could make the difference in running at 2/3 output rather than 1/3 output.

You are quite right I would not have sufficient water to run flat out all the time, I have a neighbour whose site is similar to mine on a smaller river and his turbine was running for months at 20Kw, 4 Roc territory ,any more it would be three Roc, so it is important to not exceed 20Kw. When my output would drop below 20 Kw are you suggesting a Ram pump would somehow boost my water supply? Using a ram pump would rob my turbine of much needed water, producing less power.

renewablejohn · Dec 23, 2014

range rover said:
You are quite right I would not have sufficient water to run flat out all the time, I have a neighbour whose site is similar to mine on a smaller river and his turbine was running for months at 20Kw, 4 Roc territory ,any more it would be three Roc, so it is important to not exceed 20Kw. When my output would drop below 20 Kw are you suggesting a Ram pump would somehow boost my water supply? Using a ram pump would rob my turbine of much needed water, producing less power.

Not quite the same but I am looking to daisy chain 2 10kw vortex turbines with the flow of water ending up in a sump at the bottom prior to going back in the stream the contention was to put a ram on the sump to pump 10% of the water back upto the top of the daisy chain to enhance flow rate by 10%.

range rover · Dec 23, 2014

renewablejohn said:
Not quite the same but I am looking to daisy chain 2 10kw vortex turbines with the flow of water ending up in a sump at the bottom prior to going back in the stream the contention was to put a ram on the sump to pump 10% of the water back upto the top of the daisy chain to enhance flow rate by 10%.

I think it is very important to actually see the sort of plant you envisage before purchasing, I saw an archimedes screw and a crossflow , I looked at others on the internet including the 'vortex' and a different archimedes screw where the housing is fixed to the screw and the whole lot revolves, I really think that has promise but I couldn't locate an actual plant, if you look on the net you will find it,somewhere! I think it is made of fibreglass but it could be made of steel but that would make it much heavier, from memory the tube runs on rollers at both ends and at the middle.

Ritchie · Dec 24, 2014

Have you tried here :

http://www.greenearthhydro.co.uk/index.html

Ours been up and running for almost 1 1/2 years now.
Liam is very easy to get on with and the prices wont put you on your backside.

http://www.greenearthhydro.co.uk/downloads/Case Study Ysbyty Ifan (75kW) V2.pdf

Ritchie

renewablejohn · Dec 27, 2014

range rover said:
I think it is very important to actually see the sort of plant you envisage before purchasing, I saw an archimedes screw and a crossflow , I looked at others on the internet including the 'vortex' and a different archimedes screw where the housing is fixed to the screw and the whole lot revolves, I really think that has promise but I couldn't locate an actual plant, if you look on the net you will find it,somewhere! I think it is made of fibreglass but it could be made of steel but that would make it much heavier, from memory the tube runs on rollers at both ends and at the middle.

My site is ultra low head so I dont have much choice other than a vortex turbine to give a reasonable output.

range rover · Dec 27, 2014

renewablejohn said:
My site is ultra low head so I dont have much choice other than a vortex turbine to give a reasonable output.

What do you call 'ultra low head' ? What ever you do, go and see one on a similar head to yours before making a decision.

Hydro-electric >30kw anyone done one?

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