Variable rate drilling

farmerfred86 · Jan 23, 2015

Wheatseeker said:
Did you get this system up and running? Interested as I was looking at doing the same thing. What I wondered was if you had to rig up a separate implement switch on the drill for the Insight, or whether there is two way communication with the Vaderstad control station to tell it when the drill is out of work.

Yes... its been working well although we've got to upgrade our insight now as the screens in them degrade over time.
AS comms and others have an insight trade-in option for the FMX. (I'm a big fan of the insight so a bit reluctant to change but we don't have a choice now!)

The insight works well with the Vaderstadt... even shows which areas you have drilled on the screen and then all the useful seed rate info.

Wheatseeker · Jan 23, 2015

Sounds good. Presumably if you trade in the Insight you will be left with the Agleader rate module(s) - let me know if you end up wanting to sell them !

farmerfred86 · Jan 23, 2015

Not sure... I think only the cable will be left unused? The rate application was controlled by the nav controller (upnder the cab floor) and sent to the vaderstadt box...

Wheatseeker · Jan 23, 2015

The nav controller would provide a gps position to the insight. The cable coming from the drill box would plug into the application rate module. Both would connect to the insight display harness. At least that is how I understood we would have to do it.

Alistair Nelson · Jan 24, 2015

Before AS Comms get you an FMX talk to Derek Johnson at Precise Solutions about trading the Insight in for an Integra which is its replacement and works along the same lines and will allow you to reuse your modules, yes you will need a new roof receiver but you could be surprised by the deals available we changed our 3 insights to integra's for the same reason last winter.

farmerfred86 · Jan 24, 2015

Alistair Nelson said:
Before AS Comms get you an FMX talk to Derek Johnson at Precise Solutions about trading the Insight in for an Integra which is its replacement and works along the same lines and will allow you to reuse your modules, yes you will need a new roof receiver but you could be surprised by the deals available we changed our 3 insights to integra's for the same reason last winter.

Spoke to Derek at Lamma but he said the Integra trade in has stopped now... Shame as its the integra that I wanted!

Alistair Nelson · Jan 25, 2015

Bugger that was the deal I took advantage of, check that as Comms can put you in touch with some one doing what you want to as getting some of these machines to talk to each other isn't as simple as we are all lead to believe of just you need this lead or that lead or you could have a very stressful time getting it up and running when you suddenly discover you need your drill box software updating or something like that as the drill boys haven't a clue sadly

farmerfred86 · Jan 25, 2015

Our next problem is that our RTK network is controlled by a Trimble box.... Apparently this won't now work with agleader and other equipment! Our GPS kit was purchased in 2009... but having to spend another £4k every 6 years is expensive :/

Wheatseeker · Jan 25, 2015

farmerfred86 said:
Our next problem is that our RTK network is controlled by a Trimble box.... Apparently this won't now work with agleader and other equipment! Our GPS kit was purchased in 2009... but having to spend another £4k every 6 years is expensive :/

When you say it won't work "now" - did it used to work or is it something you are just setting up ?

farmerfred86 · Jan 25, 2015

It works fine at present... But I've been told that a Trimble powered RTK transmitter base station won't work with new agleader equipment...

Wheatseeker · Jan 25, 2015

farmerfred86 said:
It works fine at present... But I've been told that a Trimble powered RTK transmitter base station won't work with new agleader equipment...

They can be configured either way. I wouldn't get pushed into new hardware just to suit someone else's base configuration. There are plenty of other options.

Robt · Jan 26, 2015

Wheatseeker,
Are you sure a Trimble base can work with non Trimble receivers!!? This must be a new breakthrough. Please enlighten me

Wheatseeker · Jan 26, 2015

Robt said:
Wheatseeker,
Are you sure a Trimble base can work with non Trimble receivers!!? This must be a new breakthrough. Please enlighten me

Won't work if it is set up with an encrypted output, which most are for secure RTK. But they can be set up for a non encrypted output. Problem is it is either / or.

Robt · Jan 26, 2015

Thanks, thought it was like that!

Niels · Jan 26, 2015

farmerfred86 said:
Yes... its been working well although we've got to upgrade our insight now as the screens in them degrade over time.
AS comms and others have an insight trade-in option for the FMX. (I'm a big fan of the insight so a bit reluctant to change but we don't have a choice now!)

The insight works well with the Vaderstadt... even shows which areas you have drilled on the screen and then all the useful seed rate info.

Good to hear it all worked but my question is, what benefit did you actually gain from it, did you monitor any? Did the yield change, saved on seed, had a higher TGW? It's all well spending lots on this stuff but the profit margin is very very small?

Brisel · Jan 26, 2015

Niels said:
Good to hear it all worked but my question is, what benefit did you actually gain from it, did you monitor any? Did the yield change, saved on seed, had a higher TGW? It's all well spending lots on this stuff but the profit margin is very very small?

No significant yield lift here, but there was noticeably less lodging & a more homgenous crop with less variablility of ear numbers. Without taking regular samples vs the flat rate field next door I can't say if the quality was better. The theory is sound but I've yet to see a ready net benefit from it on a field scale. Some very good farmers local to me swear by VR seed so they must be making it work for them somehow.

Niels · Jan 26, 2015

Ok thank you very much @Brisel! You pretty much confirm what I was thinking.

. I don't know how big the costs are involved but if you count all your hours gathering information and making maps it will be significant? With high value crops such a technique works much better.

Brisel · Jan 26, 2015

I'm sure that there are those who make it pay. I have gone from a few trial fields to whole farm VR drilling but only because I was having the whole farm EC scanned for variable soil sampling & I managed to do a bit of a deal with the rep for cheap seed rate files. I'm convinced enough to use it but not at any cost.

The PF company I deal with has their own website for instantly generating the shape files which is easy enough to use.

Niels · Jan 26, 2015

Brisel said:
I'm sure that there are those who make it pay. I have gone from a few trial fields to whole farm VR drilling but only because I was having the whole farm EC scanned for variable soil sampling & I managed to do a bit of a deal with the rep for cheap seed rate files. I'm convinced enough to use it but not at any cost.

The PF company I deal with has their own website for instantly generating the shape files which is easy enough to use.

Oh that is very interesting! I gather that you don't compromise on seed then, just put it somewhere differently? Otherwise across the whole farm you could save maybe a lot of seed? Or isn't this the case in real life? Also has the potential to suppress black grass growth maybe if you would have them mapped and drill thicker in those spots to smother weeds?

Brisel · Jan 26, 2015

Niels said:
Oh that is very interesting! I gather that you don't compromise on seed then, just put it somewhere differently? Otherwise across the whole farm you could save maybe a lot of seed? Or isn't this the case in real life? Also has the potential to suppress black grass growth maybe if you would have them mapped and drill thicker in those spots to smother weeds?

I'd rather just put the seed where it will do best in an attempt to bring the average (and total) yield up. The EC & soil type maps are used to generate zones of approximate establishment % then these are used to alter the seed rates. I set the total seed usage to match the stocks I have on farm, not really what I should be using per square metre in each part of the field. I guess you could do that but I do take the typical seed rate/m2 across the whole farm based on experience, tiller counts, ear counts etc to create the seed order in the first place. If drilling is delayed or I swap variety to one with less or more vigour the formulae just averages out the rate so I can use X tonnes on the Y ha field. I don't believe in saving every last possible seed - I'm only growing cereals & osr, some of which is farm saved. I plan seed rates based on date, seeds/m2 & adjusted for establishment but all orders get rounded up to the nearest bag but that is spread out over blocks of around 80 ha.

I can edit each zone or create more zones for weed patches if I wanted. The online tools for maually editing the zones are pretty user friendly. I have manipulated establishment maps to allow for soil fertility - a heavier soil patch was recommended to have a higher seed rate but that was where the crop always fell over due to it having the most fertility - I reduced the seed rate there to compensate by increasing the establishment % in that zone so the spare seed could be used elsewhere.

I have see your PM & will respond to it later.

Variable rate drilling

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