1st Experience with Electric Car

[chickens and wheat]

60l per minute from nozzle at £1.60/ l
Go ahead fill the boot it's your money.
If 6 minutes charge gives enough to get home then that's enough.

 

[ollie989898]

I think Elon knows what he's doing, get the manufacturing down to a fine art, which he seems to be doing, then cheaply recycle 100% of the car to build the next one. Sell them cheap, give a good "scrap" price and turn them over in 5 or 6 years.
I could see him having a plant where you drive the knackered one in one end and a brand new one out the other.
He's not just making electric cars; he's changing the whole industry.

I love your confidence in Elon. They've been making cars for a little while now, how come they can't supply parts for the trifling number that are already on the road?

In reality I think it won't be long before the mainstream car makers flog more electric cars then he does. The interior in most Tesla's is nothing special and the alternative offerings I think are moving forward pretty quickly. Toyota in particular, it seems every car they have on the road is either electric or hybrid now.

 

[ollie989898]

I think they just found 20 plus million tonnes of lithium in an extinct volcano in the US, and the estimate is the world will need about a million tonnes for the next 30 years, to make the transition.
https://www.techspot.com/news/100117-potentially-world-largest-lithium-deposit-has-found-us.html

Then we have coal extraction at 8 billion tonnes last year. . . Perspective is needed, but as usually it is sorely missing.
https://www.iea.org/news/the-world-...h-in-2022-as-the-energy-crisis-shakes-markets burn once then dig out more. . . Rinse repeat.

All these resource claims about how bad EV’s are for our planets resources, ignores many, many, facts from the fossil fuel industry, including there use of cobalt.

The worst thing about the fossil fuel industries is not the carbon but the particulates, heavy metals and radioactive waste they bring up with them or they release when combusted. Even if you scrub the emissions 100%, that stuff needs somewhere to go.

 

[ollie989898]

One of his early stated aims was to have a car with a million mile life. Some early Model S are halfway there already.

Surely that is already being done or is achievable with some electric cars. I'm not sure there is really much point in reality given the consumable nature of vehicles today. How many cars do you see on the road older than 10 years? 15? It's general old age that kills them, not the engines or gearboxes going bang.

 

[ollie989898]

60l per minute from nozzle at £1.60/ l
Go ahead fill the boot it's your money.
If 6 minutes charge gives enough to get home then that's enough.

But think of the range, real-world range of 6000 miles on one fill up, just so long as the fumes don't get you and no one crashes into you?

 

[Magnus Oyke]

60l per minute from nozzle at £1.60/ l
Go ahead fill the boot it's your money.
If 6 minutes charge gives enough to get home then that's enough.

When the internal combustion engine started to take off, it was an obivous choice to replace horses as prime movers.

When diesel cars started to take off here because of tax incentives, they were better for some people, but never really made sense for the low annual mileage driver, so they stayed with petrol.

Now we're being forced into electric cars. They're more expensive, take longer to refuel and have a shorter range. Given the choice, most people wouldn't make the change to electric because of the expense, lack of range and refuel time. Sure, you and Clive have nice big houses with a solar array on the roof and you've got a nice big drive up to your farm house and you can leave the car on charge, then if it's not recharged in time, just take the Range Rover, or the farm truck, or the daiughters car that you bought anyway.

Meanwhile, millions of other car users, haven't got off street parking, or if they have only have space for one car, but need two, they haven't got solar panels on the roof because it's not their house, or they're just squeaking by paying the mortgage, but dad comes home about 7 in the evening, it's been dark since half four and he leaves again at half 6, so the solar panels are about as much use as tits on a chicken.

And you think 6 minutes + cocking about is ok to put 50 miles in the car. That's about the time it takes to fill the combine up

 

[ollie989898]

When the internal combustion engine started to take off, it was an obivous choice to replace horses as prime movers.

When diesel cars started to take off here because of tax incentives, they were better for some people, but never really made sense for the low annual mileage driver, so they stayed with petrol.

Now we're being forced into electric cars. They're more expensive, take longer to refuel and have a shorter range. Given the choice, most people wouldn't make the change to electric because of the expense, lack of range and refuel time. Sure, you and Clive have nice big houses with a solar array on the roof and you've got a nice big drive up to your farm house and you can leave the car on charge, then if it's not recharged in time, just take the Range Rover, or the farm truck, or the daiughters car that you bought anyway.

Meanwhile, millions of other car users, haven't got off street parking, or if they have only have space for one car, but need two, they haven't got solar panels on the roof because it's not their house, or they're just squeaking by paying the mortgage, but dad comes home about 7 in the evening, it's been dark since half four and he leaves again at half 6, so the solar panels are about as much use as tits on a chicken.

And you think 6 minutes + cocking about is ok to put 50 miles in the car. That's about the time it takes to fill the combine up

We get the picture- you don't want it to work so it won't work.

For the rest of us, they might work, they might not. Given that a lot of people can park off-road and charge their cars overnight or charge their cars at work having a maximum 300 miles of range would be no real issue. It's definitely something I will be exploring in the future although for now I am sticking with a diesel car. One day however, I won't need this range nor a car of tis size and I will look at an electric Toyota or something for my daily commute and it will save me an absolute fortune.

 

[Magnus Oyke]

We get the picture- you don't want it to work so it won't work.

For the rest of us, they might work, they might not. Given that a lot of people can park off-road and charge their cars overnight or charge their cars at work having a maximum 300 miles of range would be no real issue. It's definitely something I will be exploring in the future although for now I am sticking with a diesel car. One day however, I won't need this range nor a car of tis size and I will look at an electric Toyota or something for my daily commute and it will save me an absolute fortune.

I can do a lot of my driving with an electric car, but not all of it. They'd make a great second car. The issue is being forced into one. Until they are the same price as an ICE powered car with the same or better cost to run including tax, 400 mile range and 2 miutes to recharge they aren't competitive

 

[Drillman]

We’ve just swapped the scary finance lady’s diesel Subaru for a newer one, only choice was petrol hybrid. It’s a very nice car but the mild hybrid bit is nothing more than an emissions fiddle from what I can see. We’re 8mpg down on the diesel and because of all the leccy bits it has a fuel thimble so always needs taking to a cars fossil fuel watering hole. The slightest press of the throttle kicks it into fossil fuel mode so the leccy bit is for slow speed shunting only.

Dont get me wrong it’s a lovely car but it would have been a lot better if they had either kept on with a fuel sipping diesel version or fitted the petrol model with a bigger motor and battery set up so it could be used more in leccy mode.

 

[Swarfmonkey]

One day however, I won't need this range nor a car of tis size and I will look at an electric Toyota or something for my daily commute and it will save me an absolute fortune.

You're an optimist. Once pay-per-mile road user charging comes in (which it will, there's no way the Treasury isn't going to want to make up for the tens of billions of pounds of Duty and VAT it gets from road fuels at the mo) there's zero chance of you saving a single penny. There's also the MASSIVE risk of the battery pack going t1ts up when its weeks out of warranty and you're left with a five figure bill for replacement...

Good products sell themselves. Bad products have to be mandated (why else do you think they dreamt up the idea for an end-of-production date for ICE vehicles?)

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Surely that is already being done or is achievable with some electric cars. I'm not sure there is really much point in reality given the consumable nature of vehicles today. How many cars do you see on the road older than 10 years? 15? It's general old age that kills them, not the engines or gearboxes going bang.

Actually, In my own experience (and of others I've heard), many modern cars are being forced off the road by the expense of fixing complex electronics. That or the inflated cost of crash repair parts. This is well before they are mechanically or cosmetically worn out.

 

[Drillman]

I would think a plug in hybrid that has 40-50 miles range on electric should be a good seller, and a lot of folks would get about in there daily lives without the fossil fuel motor kicking in much at all.

theres probably such vehicles already been made, but I haven’t looked to be fair.

 

[Magnus Oyke]

A quick look at VW's website reveals their base electric car is over 37 grand Volkswagen, peoples car.

For your 37 grand, you've got a 270 mile range and a load of electrical tat. Great.

 

[ollie989898]

A quick look at VW's website reveals their base electric car is over 37 grand Volkswagen, peoples car.

For your 37 grand, you've got a 270 mile range and a load of electrical tat. Great.

How much is a top spec GTE Golf? In my view you would be nuts to buy a car of that kind for 17, 27 or 37K but that is just me.

 

[ollie989898]

You're an optimist. Once pay-per-mile road user charging comes in (which it will, there's no way the Treasury isn't going to want to make up for the tens of billions of pounds of Duty and VAT it gets from road fuels at the mo) there's zero chance of you saving a single penny. There's also the MASSIVE risk of the battery pack going t1ts up when its weeks out of warranty and you're left with a five figure bill for replacement...

Good products sell themselves. Bad products have to be mandated (why else do you think they dreamt up the idea for an end-of-production date for ICE vehicles?)

I don't think they will ever make that work. It will be stopped by the privacy/civil rights brigade and what are the government going to do to stop folk driving around with their GPS signal not working? They can't possibly install cameras with ANPR to track where you go.

It'll save me a fortune from a servicing and reliability point of view, too.

 

[kiwi pom]

I love your confidence in Elon. They've been making cars for a little while now, how come they can't supply parts for the trifling number that are already on the road?

In reality I think it won't be long before the mainstream car makers flog more electric cars then he does. The interior in most Tesla's is nothing special and the alternative offerings I think are moving forward pretty quickly. Toyota in particular, it seems every car they have on the road is either electric or hybrid now.

I do have a lot of confidence in Elon, my only worry with his companies is, I can't see the succession if something happens to him.
His focus is getting the manufacturing right to reduce the price, that's why his car interiors are so simple, these cars have to be cheaper and the race to do that is hurting your 'mainstream' brands.
You're right though BYD are competing very hard with him, but they make a lot of PHEV as well not just pure electric. The Tesla model Y is number one by some margin in pure EV sales.
If I bought an EV it would likely be Tesla, but BYD or MG would be in the running too. Toyota's first EV is open for order here I think but is expensive at a time where they need to be cheaper. Time will tell, they're not overtaking him any time soon.
I like Elon, we need more like him.

 

[ollie989898]

I do have a lot of confidence in Elon, my only worry with his companies is, I can't see the succession if something happens to him.
His focus is getting the manufacturing right to reduce the price, that's why his car interiors are so simple, these cars have to be cheaper and the race to do that is hurting your 'mainstream' brands.
You're right though BYD are competing very hard with him, but they make a lot of PHEV as well not just pure electric. The Tesla model Y is number one by some margin in pure EV sales.
If I bought an EV it would likely be Tesla, but BYD or MG would be in the running too. Toyota's first EV is open for order here I think but is expensive at a time where they need to be cheaper. Time will tell, they're not overtaking him any time soon.
I like Elon, we need more like him.

I think Elon is a symptom of far bigger problems.

As for the hero worship, Apple survived the loss of Steve jobs. A brand goes beyond a persona these days.

The interiors of Teslas are simple to save money. No knobs or dials- just a 21 inch flatscreen. Great for going down the motorway in the dark when you can't operate anything by feel alone. Good job there is an autopilot because the driver on board won't be doing much driving with that in his lap. It should not be legal to have massive flat screens in cars.

 

[kiwi pom]

I don't think they will ever make that work. It will be stopped by the privacy/civil rights brigade and what are the government going to do to stop folk driving around with their GPS signal not working? They can't possibly install cameras with ANPR to track where you go.

It'll save me a fortune from a servicing and reliability point of view, too.

That's not how pay per mile road users work, they don't need to track where you go (although that may be the way they choose in the future) they just need to know how far the car travels.
A similar system has been used for the tax on diesel cars and trucks here for years.

 

[Robt]

I would think a plug in hybrid that has 40-50 miles range on electric should be a good seller, and a lot of folks would get about in there daily lives without the fossil fuel motor kicking in much at all.

theres probably such vehicles already been made, but I haven’t looked to be fair.

That’s my Volvo… hence my good experience

 

[ollie989898]

I would think a plug in hybrid that has 40-50 miles range on electric should be a good seller, and a lot of folks would get about in there daily lives without the fossil fuel motor kicking in much at all.

theres probably such vehicles already been made, but I haven’t looked to be fair.

The 40-50 mile part also negates any congestion charge nonsense.