Welder power supplies

[Kevm]

How do others run welders off single phase?
I have a nice new workshop and put in a blue 16a socket specially for the welder, but when I used it at 180a it kept tripping the breaker, so I made an adapter and plugged it into the 32a ring main with everything else on that ring, off.
That got the job done for now, but I really want to do it properly and safely, there are probably quite a few with my current setup of a 13a plug with extra fuse wire round the fuse.
How many people have to go and reset the breaker during welding - is it annoying?
Kev

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

You might need the spark to change the circuit breaker with one with a different trip curve/profile so it doesn't nuisance trip.

 

[Fraserb]

You might need the spark to change the circuit breaker with one with a different trip curve/profile so it doesn't nuisance trip.

Thats what we had to do, all the 16amp sockets are a different breaker for the welder

 

[Morph]

Same here but welder book said 20 amp slow burn type d breaker iirc.

 

[Andy26]

Same here but welder book said 20 amp slow burn type d breaker iirc.

Yes, a C20 or D20 mcb.

 

[newholland]

Hi there,

same problem here - I put a complete new cable of a large size right back to the supply where it comes into farm by the meter. - this only does the welder socket and nothing else.

we then had problems with main fuse blowing - have increased that to 100 amp and a better quality fuse holder to stop it melting the plastic

I can now run our 300amp mig welder, single phase and get those big jobs done day after day.

 

[roscoe erf]

use one of these

 

[Kevm]

Is that what you use Roscoe? with a bit of six inch nail in the 13a plug

I know modern rcd's and circuit breakers are a lot safer than the old fuse wire jobs but they are a PITA. when they start tripping and you don't know why.

 

[roscoe erf]

Is that what you use Roscoe? with a bit of six inch nail in the 13a plug

I know modern rcd's and circuit breakers are a lot safer than the old fuse wire jobs but they are a PITA. when they start tripping and you don't know why.

no six inch nail just a 16amp plug put a rcd in the workshop but its fecking useless nothing wrong with the old fuses don't think you can retro fit but if they are there

 

[TheTallGuy]

It's still possible to get the old style fuse boxes and it's still permissible to install them - I think Wylex still do them, but I'd much rather stick with using correctly rated MCBs & avoid using RCDs for anything other than 13A sockets or wet areas. Another thing to steer clear of are the budget brand circuit breakers - I only tend to use MK, Crabtree, Wylex, Hager or Schneider/Square D as the cheap Chinese knockoffs are of questionable quality and reliability and you don't save much anyway. A 180A welder should run off a 16A supply with either a C or D type breaker, alternatively have a 32A single phase (blue) socket installed with either a 20 or 32A breaker.

 

[defender]

before you decide what size of mcb or fuse to use it would be a good idea to count the load it will have on it .welders operate at different voltages so the load could be vastly apart for 2 welders both set at 180 amps or whatever
a 180 amp welder operating at 50 volts counts out at a 40 amp supply fuse/trip
a 180 amp welder operating at 24 volts counts out at an 18 amp supply fuse
one way to find out what amps you are welding at is to put a clamp meter on the live welding lead ,it might surprise you
16 amp sockets are fused at 16 amps for a reason ,it is dangerous and the equivalent of a 6 inch nail in a 13 amp plug ,if you need 32 amps then fit a 32 amp socket or even a 63 amp with the correct breaker
RCD`s or MCBO`s can be installed on all circuits and have no trouble with them on welder circuit if properly installed /correct rating. might save a life some day

 

[mx110]

Whats your 300 amp mig? Thinking of an upgrade and looking at higher amps than current 215amp that I have

Hi there,

same problem here - I put a complete new cable of a large size right back to the supply where it comes into farm by the meter. - this only does the welder socket and nothing else.

we then had problems with main fuse blowing - have increased that to 100 amp and a better quality fuse holder to stop it melting the plastic

I can now run our 300amp mig welder, single phase and get those big jobs done day after day.

 

[devonshire farmer]

300 amp mig on single phase here on a 63 amp plug

 

[Andy26]

avoid using RCDs for anything other than 13A sockets or wet areas.

I disagree strongly, if rcd's are tripping then you have an earth leakage somewhere, its not a problem with the RCD, its a problem with the installation or appliance.

The MCB will provide protection for a short circuit, the RCD live to earth and indeed in cases neutral to earth.

 

[TheTallGuy]

I disagree strongly, if rcd's are tripping then you have an earth leakage somewhere, its not a problem with the RCD, its a problem with the installation or appliance.

The MCB will provide protection for a short circuit, the RCD live to earth and indeed in cases neutral to earth.

Not necessarily - the trouble is that larger equipment often has high earth leakage from all the filtering and pfc circuitry, machines with variable speed drives and inverters are particularly prone to this as are inverter welders.

The wiring regs are such that 13A sockets in new installations must have 30mA RCD protection except in specific circumstances, for 16A sockets it is generally taken as being optional as they are normally for use by skilled or instructed persons and with equipment which may have a high earth current.

 

[Andy26]

Not necessarily - the trouble is that larger equipment often has high earth leakage from all the filtering and pfc circuitry, machines with variable speed drives and inverters are particularly prone to this as are inverter welders.

The wiring regs are such that 13A sockets in new installations must have 30mA RCD protection except in specific circumstances, for 16A sockets it is generally taken as being optional as they are normally for use by skilled or instructed persons and with equipment which may have a high earth current.

Machines with high earth leakage must have a sticker/label on them indicating they're high leakage device, not sure any MIG welders fall under this? @Welding Supplies Direct

Yes you don't need RCD's according to the regs in quite a few circumstances e.g. cable is mechanically protected etc., regs are a minimum requirement, not best practice.

 

[mx110]

300 amp mig on single phase here on a 63 amp plug

What kind of welder is that?

 

[devonshire farmer]

oerlikon, made shed frames and alsorts with it, will weld steel up to 1 inch thick.
Very pleased with it, on 1.0mm wire

 

[Exfarmer]

Don't forget these big welders are great for heavy stuff but are often not very good on light material