If two pieces of machinery do basically the same job in the same way, but one costs almost twice as much, how do any of the above highlighted things influence your decision on which to buy? Im genuinely interested.
The Cross slot vs 750a trial
- Thread starter Clive
- Start date
If two pieces of machinery do basically the same job in the same way, but one costs almost twice as much, how do any of the above highlighted things influence your decision on which to buy? Im genuinely interested.
mikep
Member
- Location
- Arse end of Surrey, UK
Now now tom, with that attitude the last 28 pages would not have happened. How can you expect to make any decision without the benefit of the forums collective wisdom?
Tom Sewell
Member
- Location
- Maidstone Kent
Really not defensive David and you're doing an excellent job of finding out what's best for you. I admire the fact that you're working out what you need. What I find amusing is people criticising a machine they haven't seen and they don't need! As John Baker said to me cross slot is really not needed in UK or NZ (even though it does a brilliant job in both countries) it's major benefit comes seeding into marginal land where liquid moisture is a huge barrier to germination. Putting the seed into a high humidity slot is the major benefit of cross slot to me. It will probably only make a difference 1 year in 10 to some but that year will pay for the drill outright. You're prob best sticking to your CO8 as output and cost/ha cheapest?! But is there more to it than that? What value do you place on oxidising carbon? If you can even measure it that is?! Btw this forum is the future for me. Stopped FW subscription this last year and haven't missed it once!
dug
Member
- Location
- North Island, New Zealand
That may be the crux of the issue..... If you don't believe it does anything better then why would you spend more. There are a few on here that don't think the CS offers anything over others yet the same people pay significantly more for a heavier, more complex, high maintenance Claas combine. Furthermore this for a machine that has no effect on yield.
Will Blackburn
Member
- Location
- Cheshire
It's not a wife FFS.
Tom Sewell
Member
- Location
- Maidstone Kent
Some choose a New Range Rover as their farm transport and we have a 12 yr old Nissan double cab. You could argue that they both do the same job (getting me plus stuff from a to b in given time) but mine is written off on the books and costs very little to run. Does that make it right? Well for me it does but for others no! Life's not black and white!
Tom Sewell
Member
- Location
- Maidstone Kent
No it's more expensive![emoji12]
Will Blackburn
Member
- Location
- Cheshire
Now that is debatable.
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
That one year in 10 is going to need a huge benefit then, something like 20-30% - you feel that is achievable over other no till drills (not vs cultivation where the soil has been dried out)?
I'm not comparing my CO8 to a CS (well obviously I have done, but as I wrote on the blog, that's just for fun). A tine and disc drill don't do the same job, so it's a waste of time comparing them when you know which type you want in this first place.
No one should be criticising things they have no experience of I would agree. I don't think I've ever written anything untrue about CS, I'm just reporting what I have experienced.
[emoji3]
Read Hans Christian Andersen's 'The Emperors New Clothes', then decide.
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
Will Blackburn
Member
- Location
- Cheshire
If you're not smart enough to drill 4000 acres with a 6m drill you've already drawn that conclusion. Let alone your too old with thick employees, and no money.
SilliamWhale
Member
Your points about having one because it suits you and that you wanted one etc. are completely fair enough and I don't think there would be any debate about that at all.
On the specific issue of moisture/germination/humidity etc. its quite interesting that according to the published data Cross Slot researchers didn't look at a single disc drill with a firming wheel and spoked or prism closing wheel. I'm not surprised that in very dry soil they had poor germination with double disc or with hoe drill (double disc slots tend to open up again) and hoe drills will naturally release moisture anyway. I wonder had they had a good look at a tuned up single disc with a nice narrow firming wheel and spoked closer could they have found a solution that was in existence already?
This is from the website:
A Unique Seed Environment
- Creates unique horizontal seed slots (most others are vertical)
- Self covers the slots
- Traps soil humidity in the slot
- Conserves 50-100mm
(2 - 4 inches) soil moisture per year - Guarantees soil-to-seed contact
- No slot-shrinkage problems
Does anyone have a definitive cost fora 6m unbuilt (no fert) and NZ build (fert) CS ? I have heard so many different prices thrown about some so ridiculous I really don't know what to believe and what the reality really is !
A 6m 750a is just under 70k to compare with a uk CS and it costs about 10k to add a fert system to compare to the NZ CS spec / price
Surely when comparing these machines this is the first point to start so it's clear that one has to perform consistently better to me worth the premium ?
A 6m 750a is just under 70k to compare with a uk CS and it costs about 10k to add a fert system to compare to the NZ CS spec / price
Surely when comparing these machines this is the first point to start so it's clear that one has to perform consistently better to me worth the premium ?
If you want an example of 'ad hominem' then have a look at the opening line of post 553.
26,000 views so far. I'd wager its because its a genuinely interesting thread about the future direction of farming. To get 'there' from 'here' we need 'early adopters' to see what works, and what will be tomorrows nettle bed trellises. I don't see any evidence of a DD machine that can stand alone through all weather and soil scenarios, YET, that won't leave the owner full of regret at least 1 year in 10.
I do know a lot of people trying to make DD work, and I admire most of them (except the blind evangelists) for working damn hard at it.
But if the aims of DD are chiefly to increase profitability and improve soils, then the DD drill I buy in 10 years (or more to the point, contract in) won't cost £150,000 and weigh 12 tonnes.
More popcorn anyone?
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dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
dontknowanything
Member
- Location
- Cambridge
In early 2014 I had a quote from CS NZ for a 6m with fert, at 240mm spacings. It was £175k. Openers are about £3k each, so a more conventional spacing of 180mm would have been around £200k. I have no idea whether prices have gone up or down since then.
Exchange rate must be helping as NZ $ has been in a right state over the last 12 months
green giant
Member
- Location
- Northumberland
200k or even 175k for a 6m drill, that's just plain bonkers by any standards. Would have to make a huge and instant yield increase.