Best terminal ewe

Following on from the Beltex thread, which is the best terminal ewe?

In my opinion it would be the Suffolk, providing she is crossed with another breed, not too difficult to lamb & plenty of milk. Pure Suffolk lambs usually a challenge though. Oddly enougth though last two seasons I've been helping a forage customer with her pedigree Suffolks & her pure lambs have been fine.

Perhaps more relevent which is the best Terminal cross ewe, again I think Suffolk but there are many more Texel cross Mules about now than Suffolk cross. I think that is a shame purely bred because the Texel whether is worth more than the Suffolk.
 

cowboysupper

Member
Mixed Farmer
Isn't that a slight contradiction in term? Is a terminal ewe called for when you could have a maternal, prolific ewe and use a terminal sire.

While both Texel and Suffolk are terminal breeds, arguably they both still have very good maternal ability if the extremities are avoided in terms of being overly muscular, heavy boned etc. When combined together they are a fantastic ewe either criss crossed or Suffolk x Texel back to a Charollais. It is a cross which has very good fertility, plenty of milk, easily enough lambed and have good maternal instincts. Produce excellent fat lambs of course as well.

I think perhaps the main problem with this cross is that they can potentially grow into ginormous sheep which can gorge a serious amount of grass. A great sheep, maybe one specially for the early lambing system, but I think as sheep farmers there is an obligation to become as efficient as possible and unfortunately this cross may just be too big. A smaller ewe can produce as much carcase weight as one of these monsters and certainly eat a fair bit less grub as well, being all round more efficient.

Maybe if they were tupped as ewe lambs it might pull their adult weight back a notch?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I could still tell, from the dopeyness at birth, when the ewe had 1/4 Suffolk. I'd never have that blood in any sheep here again, maternal or terminal.

Texel cross is an OK ewe IMO, but the extra work and reduced prolificacy, just aren't made up by enough of a price premium. Been there & done that, and now prefer an easier & cheaper life.:)
 
I think the fashion for ewes that are sired by terminal sires is merely rearranging the deckchairs to no good effect. Possibly the one that gets closest to hitting the target is the TexXMule , but let's face it , it's not as good as the Mule. Not as prolific , not as easily lambed , not quite as milky. The traits that come from their terminal genetics only serve to get in the way of the qualities that you're trying to wrestle out of a maternal animal. A maternal ewe really isn't meant to be a block of muscle with a tiny pelvic area. She should be the opposite.

This fashion is imitating the trend in cattle for the likes of the Lim/Blue cow. Seems we're living in times when a small group of farmers seem to enjoy working with unsuitable maternal females that cost a lot in money and time , and make your life a lot harder.
 

andybk

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Mendips Somerset
just how many mules are there ? how long have they been popular ? at the end of the day, time has proven the cross (and i'm not a fan ) improvements in the leicester side of the cross could reap huge rewards ,over all the different variations with regard hardiness and type , the suffolk mule is a huge success in the south and has been in all my years ,adding what the BFL breeders should have been working on all these years , instead of silly games and pretty faces at sales and the show ring ,
 

d.iainm

Member
Location
south uist
Got a couple of suff x blackies that do fine for me they were results of wondering ewes or tups but they have lambed each year without a problem. what do people see as the advantage of keeping ewes from terminal breeds to me they just add problems and eat more.
 
At a few extra p/kg for a better grade, is a long time in amounting to the price of an extra lamb sold. If you can get a terminal breed to rear as many lambs as a mule then you would be on to a winner, however it will be the less terminal strains that would stand the better chance of success.

Just as with cattle, the females need to look like females, and not resemble males. I think it'd called nature! ;)
 

Johnny400

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
If i was to add some terminal breeding to my ewes id cross with texel probably. Maybe even an NZ Suffolk as i believe there is some maternal selection done. But like neil said, i too prefer the easier and cheaper life!
 
Got a couple of suff x blackies that do fine for me they were results of wondering ewes or tups but they have lambed each year without a problem. what do people see as the advantage of keeping ewes from terminal breeds to me they just add problems and eat more.

I started the thread, because of the thread on Beltex, chap who fancied keeping pure Beltex.

But, I like ewes to be 50% terminal blood 50% Maternal blood. Partly for the better price, also when lamb is difficult to sell, still a demand for the best lambs, I see the larger ewes as more efficent on an arable farm with better teeth to eat root crops with, it might be just me but small maternal type ewes struggle to winter on very bulky poor qualty rations but breeds like Suffolk thrive on them, terminal breeds easier to keep fenced in & roundup if no dog is available, quicker finishing lambs if early lambing. On good grass I do see the argument for small efficent ewes, but prefer to make my good grass into horse hay, graze sheep on the rubbish.

Even I, think over 75% terminal blood in the ewe starts to be hard work.
 

scholland

Member
Location
ze3
We have quite a few 2nd x tex ewes off Shetland x cheviot. They make good ewes, very good mothers, lambs off them grade well. Seem to have plenty of lambs, wouldn't want anymore than half texel though. Need to watch udders but we've been lucky with rams we've used so far and not really had much bother. Seems to work with right type of texel ram.
 
Keeep it simple, maternal medium sized ewe, long bodied terminal sire with good growth rates. Utilize good grassland management and trim costs to the bone. Profit per acre, not top price per head. Making money more important than making a name!

Pretty much where I coming from, different solution to different problem on different farm type.

Actually very good for grassland farmers, that arable farmers with sheep tend to lamb earlier & spread out the marketing of GB lamb over a longer season.
 

d.iainm

Member
Location
south uist
I started the thread, because of the thread on Beltex, chap who fancied keeping pure Beltex.

But, I like ewes to be 50% terminal blood 50% Maternal blood. Partly for the better price, also when lamb is difficult to sell, still a demand for the best lambs, I see the larger ewes as more efficent on an arable farm with better teeth to eat root crops with, it might be just me but small maternal type ewes struggle to winter on very bulky poor qualty rations but breeds like Suffolk thrive on them, terminal breeds easier to keep fenced in & roundup if no dog is available, quicker finishing lambs if early lambing. On good grass I do see the argument for small efficent ewes, but prefer to make my good grass into horse hay, graze sheep on the rubbish.

Even I, think over 75% terminal blood in the ewe starts to be hard work.

every place is different they work with your set up surprised if draft hill ewes would not do well on your set up but they would fall foul of the easy to round up part.
the couple of suffolks i kept surprised me, the old man told me they would die but 4 year on they still there doing their job. are you a closed flock think that is alot to do with people keeping more terminal blood in their ewes.
 

exmoor dave

Member
Location
exmoor, uk
suffolk x mule takes some serious beating.

i have exmoor mule x suffolk, try to use "easier care" suffolks and they are bloody good ewes, very nearly as prolific as the mules them selves and rear excellent terminal lambs.

always had mules and mules x suffolks, but thought maybe we could improve so swopped the suffolk for a poll dorset to cross over mules, good ewes but horrible to work with, then tried texel, ok ewes, poor feet, tubby so get stuck on backs for a past time, don't rear lambs quite as fast as suff's or poll's, now back to suffolk to cross over mules.

also did try swoping from mules to lleyns for a couple years to cross to suff and tex, but thats another story!
 
At a few extra p/kg for a better grade, is a long time in amounting to the price of an extra lamb sold. If you can get a terminal breed to rear as many lambs as a mule then you would be on to a winner, however it will be the less terminal strains that would stand the better chance of success.

Just as with cattle, the females need to look like females, and not resemble males. I think it'd called nature! ;)

We've sold (or retained) two lambs for every ewe tupped & one lamb for every hogg tupped, must admit with some big bills along the way, but that was partly to do with terrible weather in March & a mastitis problem which is hopefully a one off. Making above £100 for lots of lambs in early June, culls cheaper this year but around the £80 mark. Ewes a heinz 57 mix of Mule, Texel, Suffolk in varying propotions but all 3 included, also have Charollais which are more fertile but less milky. Used Hartline on hoggs to bring more maternal blood back though, some ewes here 97% terminal & that is too much.
 
suffolk x mule takes some serious beating.

i have exmoor mule x suffolk, try to use "easier care" suffolks and they are bloody good ewes, very nearly as prolific as the mules them selves and rear excellent terminal lambs.

always had mules and mules x suffolks, but thought maybe we could improve so swopped the suffolk for a poll dorset to cross over mules, good ewes but horrible to work with, then tried texel, ok ewes, poor feet, tubby so get stuck on backs for a past time, don't rear lambs quite as fast as suff's or poll's, now back to suffolk to cross over mules.

also did try swoping from mules to lleyns for a couple years to cross to suff and tex, but thats another story!

Go on tell us about the llyens, sounds an interesting story.
 

sam1

Member
Location
southuk
I keep around 50 beltex ewes, they are not as prolific but as previously hinted the lambs are in a different league. a serious beltex tup across a mule or texelmule is a great lambb
 

exmoor dave

Member
Location
exmoor, uk
Go on tell us about the llyens, sounds an interesting story.

not that interesting, just didn't get on with them, on paper look very similar to a exmoor mule, but i'd be able to breed them myself, bought off several different sellers, but all would be the bigger "west country" type, i'm not trying to bash them, plenty of folk love them but i found they were abit too prolicfic for me, had a tendancy to chuck out very small lambs but were no easier lambing than the exmoor mule, couldn't be sheared as early (may) as a mule, but my worse bugbear, was how there would be significant numbers of ewes dropping out the flock from first lambing onwards, and 5 lambings was the absolute max on our ground because all there teeth were gone, many struggled to get to 4 lambings, and they got poor so easily,

where as the mules nearly all do 5 lambings reliable (but 5 seems to be the max for us) and they suit our ground, I am careful who i buy off thou!

another reason i like the suffolk x mule is the low ewe depreciation, they comfortably do 7-8 lambings, sometimes more.
 
I notice that the mule is in the background of a lot of the terminal cross ewes being quoted, which will be providing the maternal strength not the terminal breed.

With the mule out in the equation and I would be interested in how a whole flock of terminal ewes would do.
 

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