Farm Shop, planning permission

Greenbeast · Dec 30, 2016

So we're looking at putting in some kind of farm shop in the next 1-2 years.
We had something lined up at another site but that's fallen through so we're redirecting efforts to our own plot.

We don't get a great deal of through traffic but we're 2 miles off a road from a reasonable route to Camber/Rye from Tunbridge/Tenterden/Maidstone (and by extension lots of other places) area. We know the few houses the are opposite our turning, so potentially could get a good sign up indicating our presence, there are also no shops in our village (but is in the next village).

Really my question was about planning permission, what are the restrictions/requirements. It's a working (small) farm with temporary residential permission (for our caravan) currently.
We'd need a hardstanding for a structure and parking, probably situated 20-30m off the road

multi power · Dec 30, 2016

Do you think you can get people to divert the two miles needed to get to you?

Greenbeast · Dec 30, 2016

That really is the question isn't it. Difficult to answer. Google tells me it's only 1 mile after all

We could not do it anywhere else without dirt cheap rent (what the other place was offering), this way we're covering the cost of the plot already. security/travelling less of an issue for us. But yes we need to draw customers to us.

We'd like to offer our beef and pork, along with local bread, milk and honey, maybe local veg too and other bits and bobs ( i blacksmith, a friend is a woodturner, etc...)

George from SJM Planning · Dec 30, 2016

Usually the farm shop would require planning permission, but sometimes, like the residential permission you have, they prefer considering a temporary permission first with a view to applying for permanent use towards the end of that 3-year period.

We (SJM Planning) would be happy to look at this a little further for you, and it would be useful for us to look at the existing residential permission you have with the LPA, which I assume is Ashford Borough Council or one of its neighbours?

Nearly · Dec 30, 2016

@Dman2 might have an idea.

Dman2 · Dec 30, 2016

We got away with it to start with because we " claimed " to be selling all our own produce. Kept things really simple
Eventually when we extended we got a grant and had to tick all the boxes.
Was no problem at all
But we are in a so called deprived area and where offering to employ X amount of staff, and also there were no other farm shops around here.( Buggers are everywhere now )

Biggest bit of advice I will give is find who and where your target market is and price accordingly
We took a manager on board when the shop outgrew us, he was used to working in the Durham city area which is quite affluent for around here and first thing he did was put prices up.
We were originally targeting Hartlepool which is not affluent at all,
We lost @ 60% of our customers in the next 2 months.
By this time we had given the manager a chance to take over the business and pay us a rent

Best thing we ever did.
He closed the shop @ 18 month ago and went wholesale, and is making a good go of it.
We get a good rent and have no customers clogging the yard up

Doing it for the kids · Dec 30, 2016

All I will say is, if ever you had the chance to get planning for something in the farming world, now is it, it's never been so kind.

As above, from what I have heard, councils like home produce being sold direct rather than another shop, on a farm, selling the same products which are common in lots of other farm shops.

Good luck, do you research, several have made expansive mistakes off the back off por due diligence.

Wink · Dec 30, 2016

We have just been through this and are currently building a farm shop in the village to open in a few months. I know dad found the planning quite hard and tedious but got there in the end. I don't know all the ins and outs I'm afraid but feel free to pm me if you want. We had to invest in block paving to comply with highways agency which was a big outlay but looks extremely smart and is a big talking point whilst building is ongoing.

Still Farming · Dec 30, 2016

Wink said:
We have just been through this and are currently building a farm shop in the village to open in a few months. I know dad found the planning quite hard and tedious but got there in the end. I don't know all the ins and outs I'm afraid but feel free to pm me if you want. We had to invest in block paving to comply with highways agency which was a big outlay but looks extremely smart and is a big talking point whilst building is ongoing.

Around building area is it ?

Wink · Dec 30, 2016

Adjoining the main road coming in past one side of the building if you know what I mean? Basically will be the drive/car park. Options given were that or concrete which needed drainage and I think was more expensive/not possible on our site. Does not go round the whole building.

Still Farming · Dec 30, 2016

The Council dream up issues .
Something that is easy-simple and straight forward is total opp.what they usually require ?

Forever Fendt · Dec 31, 2016

Greenbeast said:
That really is the question isn't it. Difficult to answer. Google tells me it's only 1 mile after all

We could not do it anywhere else without dirt cheap rent (what the other place was offering), this way we're covering the cost of the plot already. security/travelling less of an issue for us. But yes we need to draw customers to us.

We'd like to offer our beef and pork, along with local bread, milk and honey, maybe local veg too and other bits and bobs ( i blacksmith, a friend is a woodturner, etc...)

if you are not on a main road and more importantly not offering the whole shopping experience with a cafe / tea room i think it could be difficult but don't give up on my say so but have a good think about it

George from SJM Planning · Dec 31, 2016

Still Farming said:
The Council dream up issues .
Something that is easy-simple and straight forward is total opp.what they usually require ?

I disagree, councils can only create issues if national or local policy can support it. Planning isn't down to the preference of the Planning Officer, he just interprets the policies relevant to the application.

I deal with Planning Officers on a daily basis and the number of times I've heard "I wish I could refuse it but the policies wouldn't support me", even in relation to applications I have submitted!

Mr chips · Dec 31, 2016

We are in the same position at the moment. We have sent a pre-ap to see what the council and the highways have to say before we start to spend too much money.

Doing it for the kids · Dec 31, 2016

Mr chips said:
We are in the same position at the moment. We have sent a pre-ap to see what the council and the highways have to say before we start to spend too much money.

Be aware that whilst Pre apps can be really helpful I don't think you can hold them to it, had a few gone right back on themselves which got expensive!

Greenbeast · Dec 31, 2016

Pre app was very worhwhile for our temp permission. They paid an ag consultant to check our business plans and everything and he agreed it was viable and the council went with it

George from SJM Planning · Dec 31, 2016

Doing it for the kids said:
Be aware that whilst Pre apps can be really helpful I don't think you can hold them to it, had a few gone right back on themselves which got expensive!

If the pre-app is for the same scheme as the full application (siting, bulk, mass and useage) and is referred to during the application I would have to see a very robust justification to go against the pre-app and even then I would be considering an appeal. I haven't come across a planning officer who would tell me to my face that the advice they gave me was wrong. If they do realise they were incorrect I would expect a great deal of help from them to amend the scheme to go through, the last thing they want is for them to be seen as the catalyst for people not taking pre-app advice.

Forever Fendt · Dec 31, 2016

Greenbeast said:
Pre app was very worhwhile for our temp permission. They paid an ag consultant to check our business plans and everything and he agreed it was viable and the council went with it

that will be a positive start for moving forward with any plans you have,it pays to make sure you are some where near your predictions from previous applications when going for something else ,if that makes sense

Doing it for the kids · Dec 31, 2016

In the last paragraph of every pre app I have had it says something like, " please note this is just my opinion and that of the council may be different"

Forever Fendt · Dec 31, 2016

GeorgieB82 said:
If the pre-app is for the same scheme as the full application (siting, bulk, mass and useage) and is referred to during the application I would have to see a very robust justification to go against the pre-app and even then I would be considering an appeal. I haven't come across a planning officer who would tell me to my face that the advice they gave me was wrong. If they do realise they were incorrect I would expect a great deal of help from them to amend the scheme to go through, the last thing they want is for them to be seen as the catalyst for people not taking pre-app advice.

thats when you end up with a different planning officer, around here anyway

Farm Shop, planning permission

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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