TED20 Engine Refurb.

DrWazzock · Jan 3, 2017

But once it's out a regrind and new set of shells might be better. New oil pump and leave the head and bores alone.

Head could be done another time. Bores look good enough.

DrWazzock · Jan 4, 2017

I left the crankshaft in situ and tried polishing the big end journals with a strip of emery. They came up surprisingly well, so I am not taking the crankshaft out or regrinding it. It rotates nicely with no perceivable knock or slackness.

The journals appear to have been taken down 10 thou from original spec in a previous regrind, if my micrometer is anything to go by and are in tolerance for ovalness. So I'll try a set of +10 shells. Also new oil pump and new timing chain.

Discovered an external crack on the side of the block about level with the block drain cock. Somebody has araldited it and it seems to hold water. Flushed as much sediment as I could from round the cylinders.

Only other fiddly work is cleaning out the tappets on the camshaft. They are holding water and grit where the pushrods sit. This would be easier with camshaft removed but this means removing distributor drive shaft and losing the ignition timing unless I'm careful and another palaver to get it back with timing right.

The crankshaft and camshaft sprockets have previously been scribe marked with no. 4 cylinder at TDC, at ignition, with no.1 cylinder at TDC with exhaust just closed and inlet just opening.

Mursal · Jan 4, 2017

Interesting, usually its marked firing on No1 rather than 4, fresher spot on the sprockets perhaps.
Best to go on the numbers on the back of the shells for size rather than measuring.

John 1594 · Jan 4, 2017

DrWazzock said:
I left the crankshaft in situ and tried polishing the big end journals with a strip of emery. They came up surprisingly well, so I am not taking the crankshaft out or regrinding it. It rotates nicely with no perceivable knock or slackness.

The journals appear to have been taken down 10 thou from original spec in a previous regrind, if my micrometer is anything to go by and are in tolerance for ovalness. So I'll try a set of +10 shells. Also new oil pump and new timing chain.

Discovered an external crack on the side of the block about level with the block drain cock. Somebody has araldited it and it seems to hold water. Flushed as much sediment as I could from round the cylinders.

Only other fiddly work is cleaning out the tappets on the camshaft. They are holding water and grit where the pushrods sit. This would be easier with camshaft removed but this means removing distributor drive shaft and losing the ignition timing unless I'm careful and another palaver to get it back with timing right.

The crankshaft and camshaft sprockets have previously been scribe marked with no. 4 cylinder at TDC, at ignition, with no.1 cylinder at TDC with exhaust just closed and inlet just opening.

Those TED blocks must be prone to frost, i had one here years ago, dad picked it up while out on is rounds, we dragged it out of a hedge on an old farm what was being developed into a housing estate the other side of newmarket, didnt give much for it

got it home, it sat there on flat tyres, but the engine turned easy enough

We fitted a new coil, leads and points, cleaned carb out, filled it up with petrol and gave it a swing on the handle, it fired on the second turn

All good we thought...might make a bit out of this. Then we filled it up with water, and found a crack running the lenght of the block, right from front to back, horizontal and dead in line with the drain tap

it got broken for spares.

DrWazzock · Jan 4, 2017

That's exactly where this ones cracked. Horizontal line along the block from the drain hole. Might not have drained off properly at some point due to sediment blocking drain hole.

DrWazzock · Jan 4, 2017

It's a TED but runs on petrol only. Manual suggest spark at 4 degrees BTDC for TVO. But should this be set to 1 degree BTDC for modern petrol? Any thoughts welcome.

Mursal · Jan 5, 2017

4 degrees will be fine for both, just keep your thumb next your fingers if hand starting with the handle.
1 degree if its a pig to start, but it wont be ..........

Edit:
But leave all that stuff as it is, just pull a bit of sandpaper through the points.
Then when you get it running, readjust timing ..............

DrWazzock · Jan 5, 2017

Well, after scribing camshaft and distributor shaft marks, I took the camshaft out as the tappets wouldn't lift out due to corrosion but they dropped out OK. At least I could then clean the water and grit out of the tappets and polish them so they will drop in from the top. The distributor / oil pump shaft was extremely tight due to a build up of rusty dust and dried oil. Spiral groove clogged. A bit of wd40 and it ran free again. I have marked and noted all positions so it should go back in the right position.

Sure enough the old shells are marked +010 which ties in with the crank journal measurements.

So all that will be done is big end journals polished and new shells. New oil pump rotor, new timing chain. Everything else inspected and cleaned. Leaving head, pistons and cylinders alone as seem OK and can't justify doing more on an engine with a dodgy looking crack in the block.

Mursal · Jan 5, 2017

You seem to be getting on well ................
Did you drop a main bearing cap (furthest away from pump will usually be the worst) it might take a set of shells.

DrWazzock · Jan 6, 2017

Mursal said:
You seem to be getting on well ................
Did you drop a main bearing cap (furthest away from pump will usually be the worst) it might take a set of shells.

Been mulling this over. I reckon I ought to. Also considering taking the crankshaft right out so I can replace the oil seals which are leaking at both ends.

I wouldn't hesitate if it was my own engine but doing it for a neighbour and the hours are rhyming up. So I think I'll get him over to have a look and a discussion so he knows the situation before I do more, rather than hit him with a big unexpected bill for work he didn't anticipate.

I'd say crank does need to come out and at least a polish of mains and new shells.

MrNoo · Jan 6, 2017

Think it makes sense now you have it stripped down this far and also for your peace of mind! I did a TEF and omitted to replace the gearbox seals as thought they looked ok, did the clutch release/spigot bearing/clutch and rear engine seal, put it all together and it drips oil out the bell housing hole, really pee'd me off and annoys me every time I see it!!!

Mursal · Jan 6, 2017

Well you probably will get the seals at a later date from the outside (no good doing it all in one hit), but not the main shells.
You can do the main shells without taking the shaft out and also check the thrust washers, to reduce the crankshaft end-float.

Also consider taking a few thou off the contact surfaces on the conrod that spun the bearing. Doing the cap should be fine, using emery paper on a very flat surface. If you want to ink the surface first, to ensure you are taking material off the entire surface, not just a corner.
The crush that holds the shells tight mush be reduced by the shell spinning, this technique will increase it again. As long as you have end float in the conrod assembly when fully tightened with new shells on the shaft, you know it will run fine (you didn't emery to much off).
As its for a untested customer no harm if he has to do the seals (external work) at a later date?

DrWazzock · Jan 6, 2017

Main bearings don't look very good either. Crankshaft out now. Emery polishes the main journals but doesn't really get the ridges out. Pricing up a regrind.
Are these main bearings original? Cant see any oversize number?

Mursal · Jan 6, 2017

Worth having a look, before it went back ................
Not sure about size

DrWazzock · Jan 6, 2017

Main journals are 10 thou down from original spec as measured by my gauge. Looks like it has had one regrind on all bearings.

Taking the crankshaft to the experts next week.

I don't think the front conrod big end bearing housing has lost any amount of metal. The shells had only slipped round a bit, not been slipping continuously, from what I can tell.

Only other dilemma is whether to change the timing sprockets. I have already ordered a new chain but the sprockets look worn as well, crank sprocket obviously being worse. They are expensive. I have fitted new chain to old sprockets many a time but haven't dealt with engine timing chains before now. I'd also have to retime the valves from scratch.

This is why engineering projects go late and over budget, at least when I'm involved anyway. But it has to be right.

Vizslaman · Jan 6, 2017

What a wonderful invention shell bearings are, no more bluing and hand scrapping.

Mursal · Jan 6, 2017

These lads have gears listed if you want to compare prices click

Is this your engine, timing marks,click

DrWazzock · Jan 6, 2017

Mursal said:
These lads have gears listed if you want to compare prices click

Is this your engine, timing marks,click

Those are more or less the timing marks on the present sprockets, but they are lines, not punch marks. But for no 4 cylinder at TDC firing on this tractor. Maybe somebody turned the camshaft half a turn though, the last time they did the crank. I can always check by following the procedure in the manual, hopefully. I think the original crank sprockets had two key ways to give half a tooth or something. Will have to look into it. Was also some way of adjusting quarter tooth on the cam sprocket.

Again, thanks for the info.

DrWazzock · Jan 8, 2017

Cylinders and block water ways so badly bunged up with rust, scale and sediment that now considering pulling the cylinders to clean it all out. Head water ways were completely blocked as well but have managed to shake and poke the lumps of rust out. Block isn't so easy due to poor access down the sides of the liners. If only they'd used antifreeze and not drained it down every time. Can't imagine it was cooling very well with minimal water circulation between head and block.

Fitted a new rotor and shaft in the oil pump as the old one had worn short. Turning the new one with a screw driver it isn't tight or jamming but can feel metal to metal slight rub. Hopefully it will bed in or float better when it runs up to speed. Tried outer rotor both ways round. Not a lot of difference. Thoroughly clean.

John 1594 · Jan 8, 2017

Rather than pull liners and risk cracks, leaks or worse...id lift the head and use a pressure washer down the coolant ports through the block

will cost you a headgasket.....still cheaper than another block should it crack while removing or fitting liners

those liners have been there for 60 years give or take,,,dont disturb them if the block hold water and oil in the right places

TED20 Engine Refurb.

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