Farm Tender Value, 20 yr FBT, Herefordshire

fodderfarm

Member
Location
Herefordshire
I asked for feedback on our tender, as its a good way to learn. £165 per acre was "Very low to the other tenders". Nothing wrong with only going to what you think the farm can sustain, but that puts all farm tenancies (even those with dilapidated buildings and houses) out of reach of all new entrants. That farm can only gain those prices of £200+ per acre if its being subsidised by another farm or farming family, 220 acres can only feed so many stock. Share Farming is the only way at present, build up your assets, stock machinery etc until you have more clout, but at these prices share farming is far more attractive if you can find the right partner.
 
I asked for feedback on our tender, as its a good way to learn. £165 per acre was "Very low to the other tenders". Nothing wrong with only going to what you think the farm can sustain, but that puts all farm tenancies (even those with dilapidated buildings and houses) out of reach of all new entrants. That farm can only gain those prices of £200+ per acre if its being subsidised by another farm or farming family, 220 acres can only feed so many stock. Share Farming is the only way at present, build up your assets, stock machinery etc until you have more clout, but at these prices share farming is far more attractive if you can find the right partner.
With respect £165 wasn't low if the winning bid was £172?
Agents will say anything safe in the knowledge that omly they really know what went on.
 

Map2uk

New Member
We also asked for feedback and very told the same as fodderfarm. Offered £156 which imo is ample for land without entitlements and level of investment needed. Don't want to be buying work!
 

fodderfarm

Member
Location
Herefordshire
depends on what terms you made the offer, we offered a scaling rent as the farm needed so much work to put right, and whether anyone made provisions for 2022 and the possible decline in Single Farm Payments. Yes I would agree that any offer in these figures as rent starting from day one would be impossible to sustain. But it goes to show that most farms are being used as an extension of a main farm, New Entrants have NO CHANCE to rent a farm and share farming will have to be the way if you can find a partner you trust
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
depends on what terms you made the offer, we offered a scaling rent as the farm needed so much work to put right, and whether anyone made provisions for 2022 and the possible decline in Single Farm Payments. Yes I would agree that any offer in these figures as rent starting from day one would be impossible to sustain. But it goes to show that most farms are being used as an extension of a main farm, New Entrants have NO CHANCE to rent a farm and share farming will have to be the way if you can find a partner you trust
Try finding a fox that doesnt eat chicken!
 

fodderfarm

Member
Location
Herefordshire
while you've got potato boys around here paying over £400 acre rent and AD plants paying £250 ac rent for maize any decent land in-between has to fetch top money, but the rent cannot be covered by stock farming alone. smaller tenant farmers will have to find better routes to market than just accepting ring prices, its hard work but cutting out all the middle men has to be done. hence new entrants with knowledge from other sectors can be profitable farmers IF they can find any land or farmers willing to help. Share farming can work well for both parties if they share their knowledge
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
while you've got potato boys around here paying over £400 acre rent and AD plants paying £250 ac rent for maize any decent land in-between has to fetch top money, but the rent cannot be covered by stock farming alone. smaller tenant farmers will have to find better routes to market than just accepting ring prices, its hard work but cutting out all the middle men has to be done. hence new entrants with knowledge from other sectors can be profitable farmers IF they can find any land or farmers willing to help. Share farming can work well for both parties if they share their knowledge
After brexit the spud/veg men wont be so keen when their workforce disappears.
AD is a disaster for tenants
 

Map2uk

New Member
You are all fecking mental offering those rents.
Maybe, What do you call the people who are shortlisted at the higher end?
Reality is at the moment rents are > £150 to even get a lookin. How many can then sustain that though? Or is it a question of keeping up with the high offers,getting a tenancy and a couple years down the line going to arbitration? I would imagine that is happening.
On a plus note we have now been shortlisted elsewhere thankfully as our landlord is turning our current farm into houses starting in 2020 .
 

caveman

Member
Location
East Sussex.
I think of I was a young man/woman/couple with enough capital wherewithall to stand a couple of years of renting that and stocking it at that price...... I would be looking more to be buying a piece of land and working elswhere whilst getting a shed up, farm shop, aiming for a house.
Build myself a life instead of somebody else's.
Running before you can walk and going arse over tit comes to mind.
A well known man who I know, once wrote, that his grandfather said he would rather farm one acre of his own than a thousand acres of somebody else's.
My sentiments entirely.
 
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glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
I think of I was a young man/woman/couple with enough capital wherewithall to stand a couple of years of renting that and stocking it at that price...... I would be looking more to be buying a piece of land and working elswhere whilst getting a shed up, farm shop, aiming for a house.
Build myself a life instead of somebody else's.
Running before you can walk and going arse over tit comes to mind.
Spot on caveman
 
depends on what terms you made the offer, we offered a scaling rent as the farm needed so much work to put right, and whether anyone made provisions for 2022 and the possible decline in Single Farm Payments. Yes I would agree that any offer in these figures as rent starting from day one would be impossible to sustain. But it goes to show that most farms are being used as an extension of a main farm, New Entrants have NO CHANCE to rent a farm and share farming will have to be the way if you can find a partner you trust

Was at a do recently and got talking to a local land agent about FBT's. He was pretty much saying what your saying that the majority that win FBT tenders are existing farmer landowners and not new entrants or tenant farmer looking to change or increase. The interesting thing was one of the main selection criteria wasn't necessarily the £ per acre that had been tendered, but the amount of working capital that the perspective tenant had. I took that to mean that most landlords would rather take a little less if it meant that they will definitely get paid each month.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Was at a do recently and got talking to a local land agent about FBT's. He was pretty much saying what your saying that the majority that win FBT tenders are existing farmer landowners and not new entrants or tenant farmer looking to change or increase. The interesting thing was one of the main selection criteria wasn't necessarily the £ per acre that had been tendered, but the amount of working capital that the perspective tenant had. I took that to mean that most landlords would rather take a little less if it meant that they will definitely get paid each month.
You nailed it.
Since banks have been told to increase the 'capital' they hold, they certainly wont lend to a landless tenant, so it really is game over .
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Maybe, What do you call the people who are shortlisted at the higher end?
Reality is at the moment rents are > £150 to even get a lookin. How many can then sustain that though? Or is it a question of keeping up with the high offers,getting a tenancy and a couple years down the line going to arbitration? I would imagine that is happening.

I know that's happening on several units locally, which were let at figures close to £200/ac. Few of those farms look as tidy or 'well farmed' as they did when the old tenants left, as they've not had the money to put in. I was talking to a retired tenant from one of them just last week, who was shocked at the state of that place now.:(
We were asked to match a top bid a couple of times when we were looking, but we walked away rather than get into a position where we had a farm, but were bankrupt within a couple of years.

On a plus note we have now been shortlisted elsewhere thankfully as our landlord is turning our current farm into houses starting in 2020 .
Good luck. (y)
 

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