Where did my steak come from.

willdevon · Aug 12, 2017

I have just lodged a complaint with the Advertising Standards Authority.
Easy to do on-line : https://www.asa.org.uk/make-a-complaint.html
The more people who complain the better. Also, those with direct correspondence with the supermarkets saying they can't trace the meat back to the farm as the RT advertising states will be in the best position to make a strong complaint.

Steevo · Aug 12, 2017

Red Tractor's watching you....

Bongodog · Aug 12, 2017

Why did anyone ever think this traceability was practical in a large scale meat cutting plant ?. There's plenty of youtube videos that show what happens:
Carcases are broken down into their component parts, these then go for further processing, sometimes not even on the same site. Then as an example a line slices and packs sirloins, a number of workers cut meat and place it on a conveyor into plastic trays, which then get weighed, sealed and labelled
It would be possible to have a worker individually process one sirloin at a time and label it accordingly, but it would never meet the price the supermarkets are prepared to pay.

kiwi pom · Aug 12, 2017

Bongodog said:
Why did anyone ever think this traceability was practical in a large scale meat cutting plant ?. There's plenty of youtube videos that show what happens:
Carcases are broken down into their component parts, these then go for further processing, sometimes not even on the same site. Then as an example a line slices and packs sirloins, a number of workers cut meat and place it on a conveyor into plastic trays, which then get weighed, sealed and labelled
It would be possible to have a worker individually process one sirloin at a time and label it accordingly, but it would never meet the price the supermarkets are prepared to pay.

Am I right in saying milk can have the Red Tractor stamp?
How can you trace that back to the individual cow?
Red Tractors says it can trace back to the "original British farms". There's an s on the end, a bit misleading perhaps and maybe they should change it, but if they can trace everything to the cutting plant and the plant only cuts RT meat or can keep it separate and can show who it is sold to, is that not assuring its to RT standard?
As you say maybe things can be tightened up and as a result of this thread it might happen.
Guess who's going to pay for it?

holwellcourtfarm · Aug 13, 2017

kiwi pom said:
Am I right in saying milk can have the Red Tractor stamp?
How can you trace that back to the individual cow?
Red Tractors says it can trace back to the "original British farms". There's an s on the end, a bit misleading perhaps and maybe they should change it, but if they can trace everything to the cutting plant and the plant only cuts RT meat or can keep it separate and can show who it is sold to, is that not assuring its to RT standard?
As you say maybe things can be tightened up and as a result of this thread it might happen.
Guess who's going to pay for it?

More to the point: who's asking for it? The consumers don't appear to be.

kiwi pom · Aug 13, 2017

holwellcourtfarm said:
More to the point: who's asking for it? The consumers don't appear to be.

Good question. Consumers aren't asking for it but if something goes wrong and there's a food scare or they get a rotten steak they THEN want to know where it comes from.
Retailers want it I suppose so they can cover their arse if something goes wrong.
I don't know much about RT, I suppose its trying to be a one stop assurance scheme that promotes British food and tries to prevent every processor and retailer coming up with their own individual set of rules?
Its voluntary though right? So what happens if all the farmers jack it in?

caveman · Aug 13, 2017

kiwi pom said:
Good question. Consumers aren't asking for it but if something goes wrong and there's a food scare or they get a rotten steak they THEN want to know where it comes from.
Retailers want it I suppose so they can cover their arse if something goes wrong.
I don't know much about RT, I suppose its trying to be a one stop assurance scheme that promotes British food and tries to prevent every processor and retailer coming up with their own individual set of rules?
Its voluntary though right? So what happens if all the farmers jack it in?

All that info is available without RT

Henarar · Aug 13, 2017

Bongodog said:
Why did anyone ever think this traceability was practical in a large scale meat cutting plant ?. There's plenty of youtube videos that show what happens:
Carcases are broken down into their component parts, these then go for further processing, sometimes not even on the same site. Then as an example a line slices and packs sirloins, a number of workers cut meat and place it on a conveyor into plastic trays, which then get weighed, sealed and labelled
It would be possible to have a worker individually process one sirloin at a time and label it accordingly, but it would never meet the price the supermarkets are prepared to pay.

They seem to think we can do it some farmers have a few thousand cattle and we manage at the price supermarkets will pay
Farmers easy target ?

Bongodog · Aug 13, 2017

these traceability schemes are about two things:
Making the consumer feel they care
Providing work for people with degrees in soft subjects who exist off levy fees

I learnt at a very early stage in my working life about the importance of pieces of paper, when working in electronics we were supplied with some components without the necessary documentation required by our end customer. A colleague went to the supplier, who pulled a pad of forms out of a drawer with "certificate of conformity" on them, then reached for his pen and entered a qty, a part description and a BS spec, handed the form over and said "all sorted" I recall the certificate used to be an extra £5.
Look at all the hardwood garden furniture with FSC stickers, is it really traceable all the way back to a tree in the far east ?

Courier · Aug 13, 2017

[QUOTE="kiwi pom, post: 4145406, ]
Retailers want it I suppose so they can cover their arse if something goes wrong.
[/QUOTE]

100% it's about passing the buck back to the primary producer....

Steevo · Aug 13, 2017

Courier said:
[QUOTE="kiwi pom, post: 4145406, ]
Retailers want it I suppose so they can cover their arse if something goes wrong.

100% it's about passing the buck back to the primary producer....

Take this current egg scare! Supermarkets decide to buy from elsewhere. Consumers don't trust the whole country at all....RT or not.

wdah/him · Aug 13, 2017

current egg scare isnt on british eggs but that has not being reported. most eggs pavked will say british eggs on it if from uk farms

topground · Aug 13, 2017

No Scotch eggs on Lidl shelves for several weeks. Is there a connection?
We should be told!
Almost certainly in my view. Dutch eggs featured were white so no market here direct to the public ( unless packed with brown and blue eggs in a six pack at a premium!)

matthew · Aug 13, 2017

If the chook house sanitiser was sold internationally, then it is naive to assume it wasn't sold here.

Courier · Aug 14, 2017

topground said:
No Scotch eggs on Lidl shelves for several weeks. Is there a !)

TESCO prepacked Scotch eggs 2 for £2.10 - Deli counter 2 for 75p , go figure...

Clive · Aug 14, 2017

George14 said:
Not sure what the issue is here. Your post says that the auditors can trace the product back. Are you really expecting that every Joe public can have access to all the records through the supply chain!!! The reply from RT looks pretty clear to me.

Joe public ? that will be our customers then ? why should they matter in a scheme WE pay for to give them confidence in the food we produce ............................

Old Boar · Aug 14, 2017

We dont actually know the whole thing is not a huge smoke screen. As the RT auditors seem to be the only ones who can track anything, and they are paid by RT so would have an interest in supporting the smoke screen, how can we be sure the whole thing works?
I am not saying this is true, but could it be?

Old Boar · Aug 24, 2017

I heard back from the Advertising Standards today. I feel they have missed the point entirely.

Our decision

While we acknowledge different people may have different views on an ad, in making our assessment we must consider how the ad is likely to be interpreted by the wider audience. In this instance, while we can understand your concern, we consider most consumers will appreciate there are various stages involved in producing meat that is available to purchase, and will be unlikely to interpret the statement “from farm to fork” literally. We note that the ad makes no reference to this being a service for consumers to use and consider most consumers are likely to appreciate this is an internal system in which they assure they check every stage of a products journey and are therefore able to assure that the food has been born, grown, prepared and packed in the UK. Within the context of an ad for Red Tractors quality assurance scheme we consider most consumers are likely to interpret the claim as a reference to the connection between quality farming standards and the food we eat. We have no reason to believe that Assured Food Standards do not hold such information and for those reasons, the ad does not break the rules on the basis you suggest.

I will take it further with them. What is the point of RT if only RT inspectors can follow a beast? The supermarkets are the ones sticking the labels on the meat, and they should also be able to find out the origins of the meat. RT do not know where the meat goes once it is packed, as they are not looking over my shoulder at what meat I buy in the supermarket (well, I hope not!).

And from the NFU website --
“The Red Tractor Assurance scheme means that shoppers can trace their food from farm to fork.

I think NFU had better change this....

Steevo · Aug 24, 2017

"will be unlikely to interpret the statement “from farm to fork” literally"

How else are they supposed to take it?!

I agree with your point that the traceability should exist in the supply chain without RT. Isn't that what record keeping is all about?! I'm sure the FSA would want to know where animals came from in the event of a disease issue....like in eggs or sausages for instance!

As far as the NFU comment goes - "shoppers can trust that someone in an office somewhere can possibly tell them something....perhaps". If ASA don't expect shoppers to be able to do it, why should NFU suggest they "CAN"?

I still maintain a checker on the RT website where you can put in a code and at least have a county or similar would be much better. A bit like when I trade my Fedex or DPD parcel.

yellowbelly · Aug 24, 2017

Old Boar said:
I heard back from the Advertising Standards today. I feel they have missed the point entirely.

Our decision

While we acknowledge different people may have different views on an ad, in making our assessment we must consider how the ad is likely to be interpreted by the wider audience. In this instance, while we can understand your concern, we consider most consumers will appreciate there are various stages involved in producing meat that is available to purchase, and will be unlikely to interpret the statement “from farm to fork” literally. We note that the ad makes no reference to this being a service for consumers to use and consider most consumers are likely to appreciate this is an internal system in which they assure they check every stage of a products journey and are therefore able to assure that the food has been born, grown, prepared and packed in the UK. Within the context of an ad for Red Tractors quality assurance scheme we consider most consumers are likely to interpret the claim as a reference to the connection between quality farming standards and the food we eat. We have no reason to believe that Assured Food Standards do not hold such information and for those reasons, the ad does not break the rules on the basis you suggest.

I will take it further with them. What is the point of RT if only RT inspectors can follow a beast? The supermarkets are the ones sticking the labels on the meat, and they should also be able to find out the origins of the meat. RT do not know where the meat goes once it is packed, as they are not looking over my shoulder at what meat I buy in the supermarket (well, I hope not!).

And from the NFU website --
“The Red Tractor Assurance scheme means that shoppers can trace their food from farm to fork.

I think NFU had better change this....

Unbelievable

You'd have thought RT had written that reply themselves, not the ASA.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if "@Old Boar Pork Supplies Ltd" made some claim about her meat that couldn't be substanciated the ASA would be down on her like a ton of bricks

Where did my steak come from.

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Staff Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

Share this page