This was how I saw it could work using x2 emlids which is still cheap vs alternatives ?
Portable RTK Receiver/Base for $799
- Thread starter Pheasant Surprise
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This was how I saw it could work using x2 emlids which is still cheap vs alternatives ?
I'm currently using the dealers rtk signal. . Just thought it could be handy if I wanted to work away from their area to be able to set one of these up as a mobile base station.Apologies I misunderstood. I thought you wanted to connect the Emlid receiver to a control box needing a GPs position/speed input. Can't really see what directly connecting both the Emlid and CFX receivers together on the tractor would achieve
What sort of thing did you have in mind?
You could potentially set one of these up an Emlid as a portable base and have it send RTCM type corrections to your CFX (although your CFX would need to be unlocked for RTK) - it should in theory work but you'd need to be a guinea pig. You'd also need to get some compatible radios at both ends. The Emlid has a built in radio, but looks like it's aimed at the US market and doesn't use our usual 450-470 MHz spectrum.
The other way would be to get two Emlid receivers; set one up as a base again and the other set up in the tractor as the rover, independant of any other receiver.
Purely thinking hypothetically,
Northern farmer
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- North
I cannot remember all the limitations Trimble has set to the RTK correction signal for their receivers but the above would work for most brands.
I thought Badshot was after an RTK receiver at the tractor, instead of the Trimble receiver. Even if this was not the case, I guess this portable receiver would be cheaper than the RTK unlocks for a Trimble receiver (or any other brand that uses unlock codes). Assuming Trimble accepts NMEA input from an external receiver, does it like many other brands do? Then there is the IMU issue, isn't that a separate unit anyway on Trimble gear.
I thought Badshot was after an RTK receiver at the tractor, instead of the Trimble receiver. Even if this was not the case, I guess this portable receiver would be cheaper than the RTK unlocks for a Trimble receiver (or any other brand that uses unlock codes). Assuming Trimble accepts NMEA input from an external receiver, does it like many other brands do? Then there is the IMU issue, isn't that a separate unit anyway on Trimble gear.
Pheasant Surprise
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- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Sounds like his screen is already unlocked for RTK as he's using a dealers mast or NTRIP (didn't say which).
I don't know the specifics around the 750 screens but presumably you could just feed it an RTCM 3.x correction feed through a serial port?
If it did the only missing link would be to get a set of radios - one on the tractor and one hanging off the serial output on the Emlid portable base so that they could communicate.
Seen a couple of other "value for money" drone RTK manufacturers offer 450-470 uhf radios. Maybe Emlid do too? Only hitch then would be common radio protocols if @Badshot had a radio already - probably using TrimTalk450s
Robert Ramsay
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- Angus, Scotland
I would be interested if anyone has tested this in an Ag situation. I would suggest that Single frequency will not provide a useable solution noticeably better than rangepoint in a real life mobile Ag environment. Taking into account how close to the receiver the rover would be required to be and generally how large arable fields are now.
Pheasant Surprise
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- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Im surmising here...as I mentioned above I think the biggest issue would be drift and lack of real repeatability.
Other than the drone guys as posted above, not heard and don't know anyone running L1 only RTK. The default position has tradionally been L1/L2.
These L1 only receivers have made an appearance in recent years from the burgeoning drone precision navigation market. Where before you could only really get L1/L2 survey grade chipsets from the big boys. These guys have been championing the vastly cheaper L1 only chipsets, now on the market for under a hundred bucks.
The only way for sure to see if they were up to standard RTK, would be to test for real using a standard L1/L2 receiver for comparison. It would have to be a full seasonal test to account for day to day variations. I dare say the drone guys using this stuff won't have had it long enough or test it to the degree of accuracy needed for either land survey or for that matter /steering a tractor, combine or sprayer exactly down the same set of wheelings year in and year out.
Very happy to be proven wrong, but that's kind of my gut feel.
Nothing is for nothing. There will be a trade off somewhere....
Northern farmer
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- North
Yes, I got it but I was not considering "a cheaper unlock option" for him but possibly for other Trimble owners who do not have RTK yet. Anything that can put pressure on current prices would be welcome and the existence of a less expensive option should do that.
Robert Ramsay
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- Angus, Scotland
I think that Claas used to offer a single frequency system from outback with a base station. Not sure it was very successful though. If it really worked it IMO would have become main stream by now. There is plenty of pressure on price in both ag and survey.
Pheasant Surprise
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- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Swift are another of the low cost RTK companies from San Fran that actually do L1/L2 receivers, but GPS only at this stage. They're claiming hardware is ready to do L1/L2 for GLONASS, Galileo, Bei Dou etc, but the receiver software isn't there yet.
They do an eval. kit with 2 receivers, antennas and a pair of 2.4GHz radios for $1995:
http://store.swiftnav.com/s.nl/it.A/id.6184/.f
They launched a ruggedised receiver, called Duro. based on the same board as the receivers above. I posted on another thread, no confirmed price yet, but likely to be around the $2k mark.
They do an eval. kit with 2 receivers, antennas and a pair of 2.4GHz radios for $1995:
http://store.swiftnav.com/s.nl/it.A/id.6184/.f
They launched a ruggedised receiver, called Duro. based on the same board as the receivers above. I posted on another thread, no confirmed price yet, but likely to be around the $2k mark.
Briantee
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- Location
- Mannville, Alberta, Canada
Here is another option. Not sure on the status, seems they will be sending out commercial products soon. there will be lots of this sort of stuff as the drone/quadcopter market explodes
https://www.tersus-gnss.com/
https://www.tersus-gnss.com/
Pheasant Surprise
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- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Believe they are members on here and have been known to use TFF for product announcements etc, which is a bit naughty as others pay for advertising - like Emlid. So think they've been told to button it unless they decide to start paying for ad space.
Just seen some banner ads on here for Emlid Reach RS portable receiver.
...yeah, yeh I know its still only single L1 frequency, and bit limited spec, but look out boys and girls that price point is looking attractive....
#RTK_for_the_masses
interesting article ? https://emlid.com/using-reach-rtk-affrodable-auto-steering-farm-austria/
Pheasant Surprise
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- Woodbridge, Suffolk
Be interesting to see what his actual pass-pass accuracy is like with that steering wheel setup.
I don't think he's using either an IMU (although I think the Reach RS may have one, but he's only using the older Reach units now) or any wheel angle sensors, so getting on the line and maintaining steering on the line could be pretty wavy. Without either of these I can't see him in reality getting 2cm pass-to-pass, there's just too much "slop" in his auto steer solution, so even though the receivers *should* have a greater accuracy.
It is interesting though, definitely.
Briantee
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- Location
- Mannville, Alberta, Canada
Don't be so quick to judge Robt. Now that the mapping, boundaries, area calcs, and 8 section control etc is all done and working on AgOpenGPS, which was the primary goal of the open source project, a few of us have begun working on open source autosteer. Everything from basic bang bang to full neural net fuzzy logic and everything in between.
Anyway, i just threw together a 20$ arduino controlling a 25$ pwm board controlling a 15$ motor on the steering wheel, no imu and a simple GPS receiver. The results are below in the video. Again, this was thrown together in an afternoon and utilizes very simple path planning and an even simpler PID to maintain that path. It worked from 1 to 16 km/h.
Anyway, i just threw together a 20$ arduino controlling a 25$ pwm board controlling a 15$ motor on the steering wheel, no imu and a simple GPS receiver. The results are below in the video. Again, this was thrown together in an afternoon and utilizes very simple path planning and an even simpler PID to maintain that path. It worked from 1 to 16 km/h.
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Re read my post, I was saying it's very impressive just let down by cables draped in places where they will get caught! Would be a shame if that stopped it!
What are you bigger plans with it? Do you intend to bring it to market or make it available for people to copy them selves?
What are you bigger plans with it? Do you intend to bring it to market or make it available for people to copy them selves?
Briantee
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- Location
- Mannville, Alberta, Canada
The thing is when you are developing, things aren't always pretty, even though it looks like a 5 year old may have installed it, it works good enough to test. Pretty and durable come later. Andreas is doing great work.
The plans are to keep developing and open source it shall always be - there will be nothing to market, use it if you want and interests you. Auto steer, variable rate control of air seeder tank, individual PWM control of sprayer nozzles, robotics, opencv computer vision for weeding robots. Lots of stuff, as always more ideas then time. Its been fascinating to see it used all over the world.
But the key is make the projects public, open source, affordable and we all learn and improve on them. The licensing specifically says all improvements are posted with source. Seeded couple thousand ha with AgOpenGPS this year and worked flawless. Anybody can use it if they have GPS already in the tractor. Plans going forward are cutting up the metering rollers and making multisection variable rate control on a flexicoil VR tank with custom prescription maps based on topography.
Really eager to see the new Duro from Swift navigation as a sturdy and reliable RTK system for Ag. Its kind of the missing puzzle piece, affordable cm accurate RTK. With that, all of this will take a huge leap forward.
The plans are to keep developing and open source it shall always be - there will be nothing to market, use it if you want and interests you. Auto steer, variable rate control of air seeder tank, individual PWM control of sprayer nozzles, robotics, opencv computer vision for weeding robots. Lots of stuff, as always more ideas then time. Its been fascinating to see it used all over the world.
But the key is make the projects public, open source, affordable and we all learn and improve on them. The licensing specifically says all improvements are posted with source. Seeded couple thousand ha with AgOpenGPS this year and worked flawless. Anybody can use it if they have GPS already in the tractor. Plans going forward are cutting up the metering rollers and making multisection variable rate control on a flexicoil VR tank with custom prescription maps based on topography.
Really eager to see the new Duro from Swift navigation as a sturdy and reliable RTK system for Ag. Its kind of the missing puzzle piece, affordable cm accurate RTK. With that, all of this will take a huge leap forward.
The IMU from reach is not work yet. Therefore cerea is using imu brick v2.
RTK with reach is working very good now. i have my own base an i can use Galileo also. there is now difference between reach and reachrs. it uses the same ublox m8t and the same software.
i have some advantage because i can use better external antenna.
cerea dont uses any wheel angle sensors until now - but it works - many other users are working with it to seed corn .....
greetings from austria
Andreas
Briantee
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- Location
- Mannville, Alberta, Canada
Try #2 with autosteer. Using a steering angle sensor and path planning for guidance. No IMU.
- Location
- Foothills of the Quantocks
Following on from @Briantee 's work, I've been out drilling today with AgOpenGPS, modified to work with a hydraulic valve. Still a prototype so please don't judge! I do plan to condense everything into a nice box over winter... UBlox M8P L1 receiver and NSDOG2 IMU, corrections received over 4G through my NTRIP caster. Steering angle sensor is a potentiometer I nicked off the combine. Currently running the valve off a spool, but I plan to buy another valve with a compensating port so I can plumb it directly in to the load-sensing hydraulics.
It works impeccably! Especially since it cost me less than £2000 all-in.
Photos and video here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/JWeM105uNgKpPPFX2
It works impeccably! Especially since it cost me less than £2000 all-in.
Photos and video here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/JWeM105uNgKpPPFX2