What age to drive Quadtrac on road?

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
In the legislation regarding Cat. H licence it specifies any vehicle steered by tracks.
This is to specifically exclude half tracks, which steer by their wheels either in front or back.
There is nothing to exclude articulated crawlers.
Mike Braithwaite certainly was of the opinion that Quadtracs did not need a Cat. H. But this was only his advice to Police officers regarding the legislation. It has not been tested in law, other officers have given different opinions.
However as I pointed out it is perfectly legal to drive one if you have a Cat . C licence but you should display L plates, a very minor offence. There is no requirement to carry a licensed driver with you.
However driving one under the age of 21 is certainly illegal, there is no exemption for the fact you have a Cat. C licence, or possibly a Cat. B.
Driving without a licence means in theory you have no insurance and in the event of an accident, the employer as well as the driver, is going to be in the poo with a capital P if someone was killed
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
fudge off
They still driven with a steering wheel
They still go around corners

It's not like they are a steel track crawler with steering clutches / brakes . . .

The legal definition is due to history. The law simply hasn't been updated to allow for steering wheels. If it is steered by its tracks then it falls under the legislation for a tracklayer.

I did a category H test for our twin track crawlers. The Challenger dealers are/were clued up on this & used to host cat H tests for their customers. I went to a couple of Mike Braithwaite's courses so I was under the impression that articulated crawlers were ok on the normal category F (tractor) category licence. I can't remember the age limits as I was well over 21 before driving them. I'm not going to pick a fight with Simon on this - he is far more up to speed with current legislation than me.

I think we ought to have a proper definition of what we need for crawlers for weight, licence categories & age limits - there are a lot of crawlers around & there could be lots of inadvertently unlicenced and therefore uninsured drivers on the roads.

@Simon Chiles - are there any ag vehicle experts in the industry now since Mike passed away? Any test cases in law?
 
Whenever we have a thread about licences for different ag vehicles there are always one or two comments suggesting it doesn’t matter if the driver gets stopped because the police probably don’t know the laws anyway.

Whilst that may be true I think the thing to remember is this: The Police may not know every law every day, but they will damn sure find the law if your driver hurts anybody whilst driving.

Could you live with yourselves if somebody was killed whilst driving illegally under your instructions?

With these big machines get the licence and wait until the driver is 21 to be on the safe side. They’re not built for roadwork anyway and it surely can’t be much hassle to find another driver to move it along the road occasionally, can it?
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
If your farm is in a ring fence then you could move around ok but if you're a contractor with units miles apart then roadwork is a major hassle if you have to have someone on standby to move the crawlers around regularly.
 

Simon Chiles

DD Moderator
In the legislation regarding Cat. H licence it specifies any vehicle steered by tracks.
This is to specifically exclude half tracks, which steer by their wheels either in front or back.
There is nothing to exclude articulated crawlers.
Mike Braithwaite certainly was of the opinion that Quadtracs did not need a Cat. H. But this was only his advice to Police officers regarding the legislation. It has not been tested in law, other officers have given different opinions.
However as I pointed out it is perfectly legal to drive one if you have a Cat . C licence but you should display L plates, a very minor offence. There is no requirement to carry a licensed driver with you.
However driving one under the age of 21 is certainly illegal, there is no exemption for the fact you have a Cat. C licence, or possibly a Cat. B.
Driving without a licence means in theory you have no insurance and in the event of an accident, the employer as well as the driver, is going to be in the poo with a capital P if someone was killed

All laws are subject to interpretation, it’s how the system works. The laws are basically for guidance until someone comes along and decides that your case is different from the definition or court cases before. In that instance you’ll be taken to court and depending on the outcome you may become what is known as case law and define how the law is interpreted from then on. One of your police officers who thinks that the Quadtrac requires a Cat H might just try to take you to court in this instance. There is a big difference between doing everything you think possible to comply with the law and blatant disregard for it, in the first instance I doubt it would invalidate your insurance, in the second I suspect it would.
 
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Simon Chiles

DD Moderator
@Simon Chiles - are there any ag vehicle experts in the industry now since Mike passed away? Any test cases in law?

There are a few self proclaimed experts who seem to pop up now and again, I’ve been to talks by a few and didn’t necessarily agree with everything they said and that’s what makes it difficult to source the correct info. To be fair I think Mike Braithwaite’s book was the bible and if it didn’t contain the info you needed it often gave reference to the legislation for you to be able to follow it up. Mike Sumner still produces Mike Braithwaite’s book under kind permission from his wife and would know most of it of by heart. However it’s not a complete guide to all the C and U regs concerning Ag vehicles, for that I know someone in the AEA who used to work for the DfT who would know them inside out. Don’t forget that there are also the regulations about rebated fuel and operators licenses on top of all that so finding one person who’s completely au fait with it all is difficult.
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds

Interesting guide and some very salient points, particularly regarding towing.
I appreciate that there is doubt on the category licence required, I would always advise to get an H category but if people feel they are happy without, so be it.
What is certain, is that driving these vehicles on the road before you are 21, is illegal. Further they cannot tow any implement or other, unless you have the correct full licence at any age.
 

deere66

Member
Location
York
Whilst that may be true I think the thing to remember is this: The Police may not know every law every day, but they will damn sure find the law if your driver hurts anybody whilst driving.
Nobody gives a flying f**k about speed or weight limits so why bother about the correct license, until, one day there's a crash and someone gets hurt.
 

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