Resistant Ryegrass

sahara · Jan 12, 2018

We have the ryegrass problem as well, it got bad before we were able to get on top of it.
I would echo every piece of advice already given.
A lot of spring cropping allowing stale seedbeds to be used, was probably the most effective method for us at a field level, our worst field is now about to go into its 5th year of spring cropping. As the others have said don't be afraid to spray off an area of badly infested growing crop.
In about June the rye grass is particularly easy to spot against the background crop, which makes hand rouging easier (but sadly no less boring!). I do the fert spreading and I've had to self discipline myself to stop at the end of a run and walk back to rogue any odd single plants that i see when I'm doing the last N dose.
Keep an eye on the field edges and around telegraph poles etc it likes to grow there and can be disguised against margins or hedges. Some times there will be a late flush just before harvest, this years wet summer was a good example, growing in the tramlines, so knapsack spraying the tramline was necessary. Do everything to nobble it while its relatively small and definitely while green.
We also found that we had, and still have to be, anal about machine hygiene as well, particularly, but not only the combine.
Also for the last few years we haven't home saved any seed either as an extra precaution.
We are managing it, but i certainly wouldn't say we have cured it.
Good luck.
James

ollie989898 · Jan 12, 2018

sahara said:
We have the ryegrass problem as well, it got bad before we were able to get on top of it.
I would echo every piece of advice already given.
A lot of spring cropping allowing stale seedbeds to be used, was probably the most effective method for us at a field level, our worst field is now about to go into its 5th year of spring cropping. As the others have said don't be afraid to spray off an area of badly infested growing crop.
In about June the rye grass is particularly easy to spot against the background crop, which makes hand rouging easier (but sadly no less boring!). I do the fert spreading and I've had to self discipline myself to stop at the end of a run and walk back to rogue any odd single plants that i see when I'm doing the last N dose.
Keep an eye on the field edges and around telegraph poles etc it likes to grow there and can be disguised against margins or hedges. Some times there will be a late flush just before harvest, this years wet summer was a good example, growing in the tramlines, so knapsack spraying the tramline was necessary. Do everything to nobble it while its relatively small and definitely while green.
We also found that we had, and still have to be, anal about machine hygiene as well, particularly, but not only the combine.
Also for the last few years we haven't home saved any seed either as an extra precaution.
We are managing it, but i certainly wouldn't say we have cured it.
Good luck.
James

If it is worth it (in terms of the size of the problem), then put a local ad in the paper, advertising for people to walk fields and get paid to get a suntan in July, 10 or so folk will soon clear a lot of acres in a day.

chris4000 · Jan 12, 2018

Thanks for all your replies,we shall have to get it tested for resistance,then get rid of it all by spraying glyphosate with knapsack and hand rogueing,did this last year on a patch of black grass,killed it all

ZXR17 · Jan 12, 2018

I have big problems with IRG. No really effective chemical control in cereals so OSR is still the best chance of control.
Centurian Max does a good job followed up with Kerb.
I also often get more surviving in the tramlines which is probably because the Kerb cannot get down to the roots because of the compaction. I'm thinking of rigging up two nozzles on the sprayer to apply Roundup to the wheelings.
I spend hours, weeks actually, rogueing and spot spraying.
Photos show Kerb starting to work on the IRG and Black Grass.

faircomment · Jan 12, 2018

ZXR17 said:
View attachment 620976 View attachment 620978 I have big problems with IRG. No really effective chemical control in cereals so OSR is still the best chance of control.
Centurian Max does a good job followed up with Kerb.
I also often get more surviving in the tramlines which is probably because the Kerb cannot get down to the roots because of the compaction. I'm thinking of rigging up two nozzles on the sprayer to apply Roundup to the wheelings.
I spend hours, weeks actually, rogueing and spot spraying.
Photos show Kerb starting to work on the IRG and Black Grass.

Have had the same issues with ryegrass germinating on the rape tramlines , sure your idea would work well . Give them some glyphosate when going through on full flower

Flat 10 · Jan 12, 2018

Is this just ‘tame’ ryegrass that’s been planted in a field at some point becoming resistant to chemicals? If so presumably farmers who have planted RG leys to manage BG are potentially creating themselves an issue in the future?

ollie989898 · Jan 12, 2018

faircomment said:
Have had the same issues with ryegrass germinating on the rape tramlines , sure your idea would work well . Give them some glyphosate when going through on full flower

Could you at least drill the OSR with no tramlines so that there would be at least more cover there, particularly initially, to discourage anything else from growing there?

faircomment · Jan 12, 2018

Rape is drilled on a subsoiler so no tramlines . Centurion max , crawler and kerb all keeps onto of it , until April/may time when any thin patches/tramlines in the bad patches of fields can get taken over quickly.

ollie989898 · Jan 12, 2018

faircomment said:
Rape is drilled on a subsoiler so no tramlines . Centurion max , crawler and kerb all keeps onto of it , until April/may time when any thin patches/tramlines in the bad patches of fields can get taken over quickly.

Ah, ok. I got ya. Of course, ryegrass seems happy to germinate all year round.

faircomment · Jan 12, 2018

ollie989898 said:
Ah, ok. I got ya. Of course, ryegrass seems happy to germinate all year round.

Yep , I did try the knapsack down tramlines but felt I was fighting a loosing battle. Spring beans in those fields this year so have to hope for some good establishment.

Farmer Roy · Jan 13, 2018

err, it bothers & concerns me that people continue to mention glyphosate & ryegrass . . .

ryegrass resistance to glypho was the first to show & is a major threat to our cropping systems here. I am not familiar with Black Grass, but reading here it seems like a very similar problem.

just make sure you go back, check the effectiveness of the application & make sure there are NO survivors !
There was a time we thought Roundup was a silver bullet that kills everything - but it isn't. MANY cases of glypho resistance around the world, hence the legitimate concerns over GM RR crops & the management / legislative requirements ( that we in Australia MUST follow, anyway ) that are in place. Glypho is a VERY valuable tool but we do need to ensure its effectiveness for as long as we can

Sorry - I'll get off my soap box now

CornishTone · Jan 13, 2018

Farmer Roy said:
err, it bothers & concerns me that people continue to mention glyphosate & ryegrass . . .

ryegrass resistance to glypho was the first to show & is a major threat to our cropping systems here. I am not familiar with Black Grass, but reading here it seems like a very similar problem.

just make sure you go back, check the effectiveness of the application & make sure there are NO survivors !
There was a time we thought Roundup was a silver bullet that kills everything - but it isn't. MANY cases of glypho resistance around the world, hence the legitimate concerns over GM RR crops & the management / legislative requirements ( that we in Australia MUST follow, anyway ) that are in place. Glypho is a VERY valuable tool but we do need to ensure its effectiveness for as long as we can

Sorry - I'll get off my soap box now

It’s a very valid point, hence my post about our nightmare farmer nearby with four way resistant ryegrass, including Glyphosate. It’s worth looking at mechanical/cultural control methods to take the pressure of herbicides, especially Glyphosate.

Dr John Broster is chief resistance guru at Charles Sturt Uni in NSW and I had the chance to quiz him on the subject the other day. He was saying that he’s seen situations where Glyphosate resistance has manifested with as few as 15 applications. Scary!

Farmer Roy · Jan 13, 2018

CornishTone said:
It’s a very valid point, hence my post about our nightmare farmer nearby with four way resistant ryegrass, including Glyphosate. It’s worth looking at mechanical/cultural control methods to take the pressure of herbicides, especially Glyphosate.

Dr John Broster is chief resistance guru at Charles Sturt Uni in NSW and I had the chance to quiz him on the subject the other day. He was saying that he’s seen situations where Glyphosate resistance has manifested with as few as 15 applications. Scary!

yep, I think I mentioned earlier that after about 20 applications resistance was likely to show, so obviously my memory wasn't too befuddled

when I first joined TFF I had a big discussion about glypho resistance & drew on my own personal experiences along with a very wide scale uptake of zero till & glypho useage over 30 yrs or more in this country, but I got the impression no one really listened to me or that it wasn't relevant as it was Australia.

UK farmers always used "correct" rates & application methods, so I was just being ridiculous apparently . . .

Kiwi Pete · Jan 13, 2018

That's terribly scary - only 15 applications!!

It is the reason I'm a last-resort chemical user, from managing worm burdens to sprays.

Everything we do "conventionally" in effect selects for resistance - I know my stance is waaay OTT but that's the joy of being a smallholder I suppose - I like my non-desirables to have their roots in the air and shading the hole they came out of.
Entirely manageable on a small acreage though.

My friend has recently used Centurion on his clover paddock with quite mixed results, and I'm trying to persuade him not to follow it with a second application this year!

"Thwow him woughly to the flaw, Centuwion"

Kiwi Pete · Jan 13, 2018

ZXR17 said:
View attachment 620976 View attachment 620978 I have big problems with IRG. No really effective chemical control in cereals so OSR is still the best chance of control.
Centurian Max does a good job followed up with Kerb.
I also often get more surviving in the tramlines which is probably because the Kerb cannot get down to the roots because of the compaction. I'm thinking of rigging up two nozzles on the sprayer to apply Roundup to the wheelings.
I spend hours, weeks actually, rogueing and spot spraying.
Photos show Kerb starting to work on the IRG and Black Grass.

Would it be feasible to fashion a shallow cultivator with wide sweep points to "scuffle" it out, or is that merely a recipe for blackgrass?
Scuffling and ridging root crops is making a serious comeback down here - seems the farmers with sheep feet issues are also those who use large quantities of glyphosate (tin hat on)
I keep that bit of anecdotal evidence firmly to myself but since we're looking at alternatives I'll share.
FFS I will deny all knowledge if I'm quoted as saying that hoof disease in sheep is compounded by the semi-fungicidal effects of regular glyph usage, and the imbalances that result.

Farmer Roy · Jan 13, 2018

Kiwi Pete said:
That's terribly scary - only 15 applications!!

No, that isn't scary
Knowledge allows greater management
What is REALLY scary is when people don't know ( like us 30 years ago ) or won't acknowledge advice, experience or warnings from others

What is REALLY scary is the head in the sand it won't happen here because ( insert your favourite excuse ) attitudes

What is REALLY scary is thinking you are always the best & there is nothing left to learn or improve upon . . .

I know us southerners ( NSW hasn't been a colony since 1901 & I refuse to accept the title of "colonial" ) get some flack, some probably rightly deserved, but I have to admit to getting a bit sick of the Imperialists attitudes at times also

All this relates to my comments re glypho & resistance for those who couldn't be bothered reading further up

CornishTone · Jan 13, 2018

Farmer Roy said:
I know us southerners ( NSW hasn't been a colony since 1901 & I refuse to accept the title of "colonial" )

Think of it as a term of endearment! It differentiates from “Southerners” being anyone who lives south of the M4 for the majority of posters and is easier to say than “Commonwealthians” or “Ferderationals”. I suppose Antipodeans would also be acceptable?!

Farmer Roy · Jan 13, 2018

CornishTone said:
Think of it as a term of endearment! It differentiates from “Southerners” being anyone who lives south of the M4 for the majority of posters and is easier to say than “Commonwealthians” or “Ferderationals”. I suppose Antipodeans would also be acceptable?!

Yeah, didn't like " southerner " much either
Antipodeans is fine
I've met white South Africans & Zimbabweans in the U.K. ( generally young, rich & privileged ) who have proudly called themselves colonials, almost as if they were romanticising a return to colonial rule - I wouldn't really align myself with them . . .

CornishTone · Jan 13, 2018

Farmer Roy said:
Yeah, didn't like " southerner " much either
Antipodeans is fine
I've met white South Africans & Zimbabweans in the U.K. ( generally young, rich & privileged ) who have proudly called themselves colonials, almost as if they were romanticising a return to colonial rule - I wouldn't really align myself with them . . .

I think we could, and probably have, had a whole thread about Zimbabwe and it’s colonial or recent history!

We digress... Back to ryegrass!

Grass And Grain · Jan 13, 2018

We normally plough. Just got one field with a niggling ryegrass problem. None in our other fields.

Decided to min-till it one year instead of plough for a winter barley crop. RG and Brome population exploded.

We probably didn't follow the best mintill practices etc, but I learnt something that year about mintill, attention to detail, crop choice etc.

Resistant Ryegrass

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