- Location
- 200 miles N,NW of New York
is it the ones complaining about handling that are the bad losers,
or the ones handling ?
or the ones handling ?
First of all, while I did , and may well do again, take photographs and use them in a legit protest, I would rather the stewards did this. Photographing offenders has long lasting effects, the model in my shots was like a cat on a hot tin roof at several later matches, frightened to leave the cab, if he saw a camera! Also, just letting it be known that the stewards will have cameras, turns every camera carrying spectator into a potential steward!As one who has visited Rome on several occasions, and whilst there done as the Romans. I am also a regular visitor to the realms of the Luddite and plough there willingly - not even kicking ends over - which some people championing the cause of hands free are apt to surreptitiously do. Let’s not forget the bit about him having no guilt casting the first stone.
Sorry CB but the grain of truth in your generalisations would lead to starvation of epic proportions.
There are many superbly gifted ploughmen apt to handle so said point about bad ploughmen is a poor generalisation. Handlers are generally ploughmen (sometimes relatives of ploughmen) and by that token can be good or bad ploughmen.
The next point of elephantine proportions is the bad loser bit. Some legendary bad losers are not known to be handlers whilst some can be both. Not all handlers are bad losers, simply trying to minimise their probability of losing.
There is also as according to the great Arlo Guthrie “a third possibility they hadn’t even counted on’ and in this instance is the fact that some handlers take a great deal of pride in their work and that’s why generally it is straighter, more uniform and pleasing to the eye.
Speaking of Arlo Guthrie, there is a great parallel with Harry adroitly shopping his fellow ploughmen, digital camera in hand. Arlo Guthrie made a record about having dumped some rubbish from Alice’s Restaurant from the back of his red VW Microbus.(fly tipping but the dump had been closed on thanksgiving) He was summoned, tried and found guilty of “littering” As evidence, the prosecution had 27 8x10 coloured glossy pictures, with circles n’ arrows an’ a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was, to be used as evidence against him.
But that’s not what he came to tell us. He came to talk about the draft (American national service at the time of Viet Nam) The upshot of it was that having been convicted of a felony - littering - he was considered not moral enough to join the army and go on to burn women, kids, houses and villages.
Are you saying handlers are not moral enough to be prizewinners Harry or is it just that their moral compass is just on the sinistral side of North.
Joking apart and very much as I saiid earlier, this has to come down from the top and through the management route. Wherever systems are in place with flags and warnings then 99% of ploughmen will toe the line - unreservedly. Shopping fellow ploughmen creates division, bad feeling and has a markedly bad impact on the photographers ploughing. Life is far far too short. Just get out there and plough. Leave the rule application and policing of it to the Organisers as they see fit. Don’t forget - any society can impose their own rules and apply them however they see as appropriate. Even this is flawed to a degree. Whilst some Societies abhor handling by vast proportions, they see no wrong in slipping a visiting ploughman a 3 or a 4 for general appearance in order for their local hero to win. Please bear in mind. However aggrieved or wronged you may feel in the lower orders, it’s a lot lot tougher at the top for those apart grom the chosen few.
If not handling ploughing or kicking the ends over brands me as a ‘luddite’ then I am quite happy to be so. I’d rather the compliments from follow ploughmen for a job well done fairly, than the hollow victory that comes from simply cheating to get higher up the score sheet. It is a P L O U G H I N G match after allAs one who has visited Rome on several occasions, and whilst there done as the Romans. I am also a regular visitor to the realms of the Luddite and plough there willingly - not even kicking ends over - which some people championing the cause of hands free are apt to surreptitiously do. Let’s not forget the bit about him having no guilt casting the first stone.
Sorry CB but the grain of truth in your generalisations would lead to starvation of epic proportions.
There are many superbly gifted ploughmen apt to handle so said point about bad ploughmen is a poor generalisation. Handlers are generally ploughmen (sometimes relatives of ploughmen) and by that token can be good or bad ploughmen.
The next point of elephantine proportions is the bad loser bit. Some legendary bad losers are not known to be handlers whilst some can be both. Not all handlers are bad losers, simply trying to minimise their probability of losing.
There is also as according to the great Arlo Guthrie “a third possibility they hadn’t even counted on’ and in this instance is the fact that some handlers take a great deal of pride in their work and that’s why generally it is straighter, more uniform and pleasing to the eye.
Speaking of Arlo Guthrie, there is a great parallel with Harry adroitly shopping his fellow ploughmen, digital camera in hand. Arlo Guthrie made a record about having dumped some rubbish from Alice’s Restaurant from the back of his red VW Microbus.(fly tipping but the dump had been closed on thanksgiving) He was summoned, tried and found guilty of “littering” As evidence, the prosecution had 27 8x10 coloured glossy pictures, with circles n’ arrows an’ a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was, to be used as evidence against him.
But that’s not what he came to tell us. He came to talk about the draft (American national service at the time of Viet Nam) The upshot of it was that having been convicted of a felony - littering - he was considered not moral enough to join the army and go on to burn women, kids, houses and villages.
Are you saying handlers are not moral enough to be prizewinners Harry or is it just that their moral compass is just on the sinistral side of North.
Joking apart and very much as I saiid earlier, this has to come down from the top and through the management route. Wherever systems are in place with flags and warnings then 99% of ploughmen will toe the line - unreservedly. Shopping fellow ploughmen creates division, bad feeling and has a markedly bad impact on the photographers ploughing. Life is far far too short. Just get out there and plough. Leave the rule application and policing of it to the Organisers as they see fit. Don’t forget - any society can impose their own rules and apply them however they see as appropriate. Even this is flawed to a degree. Whilst some Societies abhor handling by vast proportions, they see no wrong in slipping a visiting ploughman a 3 or a 4 for general appearance in order for their local hero to win. Please bear in mind. However aggrieved or wronged you may feel in the lower orders, it’s a lot lot tougher at the top for those apart grom the chosen few.
Where was that John?once asked a member on here (you know who you are) about the rules in the High cut, the reply was make sure your finished on time, and have you got a gardening assistant, yes a man with a hoe to shape the furrows and pull weeds out, to follow you all day while your ploughing,
no I said I just on my own today,
yes it was true, the others had assistants doing the above all day long,
but I did not complain about it, just get on with it
Now, I hope you ploughing boys don't mind me sticking my oar in here. I'm just a simple shepherd, who regularly looks in here, 'cos I admire a bit of good ploughing. You're quite welcome to tell me to fudge off back to Livestock and Forage if you like
To be honest, I can't believe what I'm reading - all this talk about gardening or handling or whatever you want to call it.
Surely the Ploughing Society (Society of Ploughmen??) has rules?
If it has rules, then why doesn't it have the rubbish to enforce them?
Do you guys pay a sub to it? If you do, IMHO you don't get your money's worth, however much it costs a year.
A couple of months ago, I seem to remember reading on here that somebody's plough had been sabotaged at the National Match in Somerset - FFS what's going on?
Seems like your sport is full of crooks It's a real pity 'cos you guys read like a bunch of decent blokes who freely give each other, and those less experienced guys who come here, plenty of free advice and tips in order to promote your very worthy pastime.
Just sayin'
it was over the BorderWhere was that John?
Thanks for the reply @Pennine Ploughing.Now then so you a Shepherd from N Lincs, cant be many sheep there, and you come in here and poke your nose in,
well feel free to say what you want,
as for the National body, your right its the "Society of Ploughmen" yes they do make the rules or most of them,
but they don't run the local matches, local clubs run the matches, and not all but most run them to SOP rules,
or so they say they do, its up to the local club to find stewards that will police the match,
if any stewards can be found, they are either old and not fit really to do the job, or they are young and don't know how to do the stewarding, or their between the 2 and are spine less and don't want to upset anyone,
maybe a man like yourself that does not fit into any of the above, would like to do a bit of stewarding at local level,
sure there will be a local club to you would really like a good steward, I can put you in touch with a couple if you like
yes i do agree with your post,Thanks for the reply @Pennine Ploughing.
I can understand that it will be difficult to get enough volunteers to help at matches (had enough experience with organising other events/shows etc) but I find it very disappointing that all this blatant 'gardening' can't be self policed by the competitors somehow - after all I expect pretty much everybody knows everybody else. Just another example of falling standards in all walks of life I suppose
Sad state of affairs
Kicking the ends over is legal, providing you stop at the mark! Having ends to kick over here is however not, ploughs can only be put in the ground on the competitors plot!
I have even been to one yfc match where the rules stated that competitors could not leave the headlands of their plots after the match had started! It was put in to stop running around empty, did that all right, no one could move!
David, the rules dont specify a distance from the plot, a mile or an inch is still not on your plot! The ends are not on your plot, so are not part of your ploughing. Shows how badly the rules are written, and how unenforceable they are!Another example, at the national at Burwell I was "Ploughing" high cut, and had made a right pigs ear. I was trimming some lumps off the unploughed ground with my paddle, when the steward marched over and told me I could not do this, as ploughing had to be left untouched after the plough.I then pointed out that, as I hadn`t ploughed it yet, that could not apply!
The photographic celebrity was, and still is a friend, and has offered advice when asked, like another, further north, I disagree with what he does, and he is in no doubt as to my feelings!
You admit to accrued your trophies when things were better policed, why then do you support the activities engaged in now, which would have lead to penalties in your day?
The SOP, until it grasps the nettle, provides stewards and judges at all matches and generally becomes a governing body, will remain a talking shop, with no authority.
Get elected, unlikely, to say the least! To manage that, you would need to be rich enough to move in circles populated by the other directors. In this case, it would be easier for a quadtrack to pass through the eye of a needle than for a poor man to enter the kingdom of Doncaster!
Well, down here, we do need stewards, and while the gardeners cant be stopped, they can be slowed down, and their activities rendered "pointless"! Getting judges should be the SOPs job, if the match in question is affiliated, they should be able to request the required number from the SOP. As I have mentioned many times, if they want to be making rules etc, and act like a governing body, then they have to be a governing body, and operate their own enforcement and judging schemes.
Judges seminars, for example, are a step in the right direction, but it all falls apart at the first hurdle, there is no compulsion for these judges who have spent their hard earned cash to get their bit of paper, to be employed at any match! It should be a requirement of affiliation that SOP accredited judges are used.If nothing else, the playing field should be levelled a bit. Stewards could be like wise trained, and that could just be a written exam. Indeed, with the numbers of judges being produced, we could follow football, the linesmen (stewards) are qualified referees (judges).