Have some of that Chris Packham

Cows 'n grass · Oct 8, 2018

Admittedly someore arable areas have taken out large areas of hedgerows but our home farm is 130ac in 19 fields. On the Devon county council website there are maps from 1834 and there are only 2 hedges totalling less than 200m missing since then.

brigadoon · Oct 8, 2018

Fallowfield said:
Good for you.

Why was it thought necessary to introduce legislation to stop hedges being removed?

How much has been paid out in Hedgerow and Boundary Grants?

Just for once - why don't you tell us?

Fallowfield · Oct 8, 2018

brigadoon said:
Just for once - why don't you tell us?

I've no idea on the second. On the first maybe it was because too many hedges were being removed.

In any event I'm not sure why you're all getting so upset about Packham's comment 'why do we persist with the removal of hedges from our countryside?'. It's evident from the comments on here that farmers love hedges, wouldn't ever dream of removing them, and are never so happy as when they get the chance to plant a new one.

Raider112 · Oct 8, 2018

Fallowfield said:
I've no idea on the second. On the first maybe it was because too many hedges were being removed.

In any event I'm not sure why you're all getting so upset about Packham's comment 'why do we persist with the removal of hedges from our countryside?'. It's evident from the comments on here that farmers love hedges, wouldn't ever dream of removing them, and are never so happy as when they get the chance to plant a new one.

Are you always a cynical bore or is it just when you're on here? Is your only reason for being on here to wind people up or do you just not have any mates in the real world?

MrNoo · Oct 8, 2018

Fallowfield said:
###

I can only speak from my own experience. Most farmers I encounter have little or no interest. Given where they live and work, and the opportunities they have, I find that odd.

You are just a troll, farmers are some of the most knowledgable about their surrounds, much more so than some clipboard warrior fresh out of collage.

Fallowfield · Oct 8, 2018

MrNoo said:
You are just a troll, farmers are some of the most knowledgable about their surrounds, much more so than some clipboard warrior fresh out of collage.

The farmers I've encountered generally haven't betrayed any great knowledge or interest.

The idea that people who, by an accident of birth (in most cases) live in the countryside are necessarily going to know or care about wildlife is a myth. As is the idea that people who live in urban areas are ignorant and ill informed about such matters.

Fallowfield · Oct 8, 2018

Raider112 said:
Are you always a cynical bore or is it just when you're on here? Is your only reason for being on here to wind people up or do you just not have any mates in the real world?

Are you resorting to personal abuse because you have nothing to contribute to the issue being discussed? Or is just what you do?

SLA · Oct 8, 2018

Not personal abuse, just an observation

(At a guess)

Raider112 · Oct 8, 2018

Fallowfield said:
Are you resorting to personal abuse because you have nothing to contribute to the issue being discussed? Or is just what you do?

I honestly am not an abusive person and although it is maybe blunt I don't think it is abusive but by hell you test people's patience.

renewablejohn · Oct 8, 2018

Fallowfield said:
I've no idea on the second. On the first maybe it was because too many hedges were being removed.

In any event I'm not sure why you're all getting so upset about Packham's comment 'why do we persist with the removal of hedges from our countryside?'. It's evident from the comments on here that farmers love hedges, wouldn't ever dream of removing them, and are never so happy as when they get the chance to plant a new one.

Well I live in an area where the dry stone wall is the norm and even I have planted hedges which I have harvested today and will look forward to the sloe gin shortly. As for wildlife ignorance of farmers thats very disrespectful although I am the first to admit I will not divulge to the likes of the Wildlife Trust what wildlife we have on the farm as I find the best method of protection of this wildlife is for these bodies not to know.

DRC · Oct 9, 2018

renewablejohn said:
Well I live in an area where the dry stone wall is the norm and even I have planted hedges which I have harvested today and will look forward to the sloe gin shortly. As for wildlife ignorance of farmers thats very disrespectful although I am the first to admit I will not divulge to the likes of the Wildlife Trust what wildlife we have on the farm as I find the best method of protection of this wildlife is for these bodies not to know.

Exactly this. Once bodies like NE get involved, chances are the management of the rare plant etc, gets changed to suit them and the plant disappears .

Will Blackburn · Oct 9, 2018

Fallowfield said:
Good for you.

Why was it thought necessary to introduce legislation to stop hedges being removed?

How much has been paid out in Hedgerow and Boundary Grants?

Why are you having a go at one of the most genuine blokes on here?

Having done hedgerow establishment, the grants were covering only part of the cost and certainly not the after care required to ensure full establishment.

joe soapy · Oct 9, 2018

Yosemite Sam said:
I see in the Western Dailey Press this morning that Roger Evans has given Chris Packham a good roasting. About time too and a very sensible article.View attachment 724474

Thank you for posting that.
The best bit of truth telling i have seen in my life

joe soapy · Oct 9, 2018

Fallowfield said:
The farmers I've encountered generally haven't betrayed any great knowledge or interest.

The idea that people who, by an accident of birth (in most cases) live in the countryside are necessarily going to know or care about wildlife is a myth. As is the idea that people who live in urban areas are ignorant and ill informed about such matters.

You have to realise that the majority of farmers are the result of selective breeding over millennia.
the majority of townies are the result of using " bull of the day"

stroller · Oct 9, 2018

@Fallowfield did you post on the guardian website as steb1 or something, you have a similar .....style ?

pine_guy · Oct 9, 2018

Will Blackburn said:
Why are you having a go at one of the most genuine blokes on here?

Having done hedgerow establishment, the grants were covering only part of the cost and certainly not the after care required to ensure full establishment.

Hmm, yeah. Yet to have someone pop up and say thanks for maintaining the hedgerow in that state for the wildlife. The dense hedge that protects nesting birds only develops as a result of regular trimming. My contractor bill is about £1k per year and we predominantly just do road sides.

TheTallGuy · Oct 9, 2018

The biggest irony here for me is that hedgerows are not a natural occurrence - they are a man made thing! The species that we put into our hedgerows wouldn't naturally grow in tight rows & would grow into large bushes & trees without our trimming - great for pigeons and other large birds, not so good for smaller birds which require dense cover for protection.

As ever statistics can be used to support any given agenda - for instance we are often told of the decline in certain small birds compared to say 60 years ago; what those statistics don't say is that bird numbers may well of been higher than natural due to the decline in predators caused by us and by the encouragement we gave the small birds in providing nice artificial habitats.

toquark · Oct 9, 2018

MrNoo said:
You are just a troll, farmers are some of the most knowledgable about their surrounds, much more so than some clipboard warrior fresh out of collage.

Fallowfield is a troll. He clearly has no interest in the forum save winding people on it up by posting comments designed to do just that. Fair enough, and if you want to take him on fine, but I've come to the conclusion I'm not going to waste any more time replying to his blinkered rubbish - he's not interested and frankly neither am I.

Cowabunga · Oct 9, 2018

TheTallGuy said:
The biggest irony here for me is that hedgerows are not a natural occurrence - they are a man made thing! The species that we put into our hedgerows wouldn't naturally grow in tight rows & would grow into large bushes & trees without our trimming - great for pigeons and other large birds, not so good for smaller birds which require dense cover for protection.

As ever statistics can be used to support any given agenda - for instance we are often told of the decline in certain small birds compared to say 60 years ago; what those statistics don't say is that bird numbers may well of been higher than natural due to the decline in predators caused by us and by the encouragement we gave the small birds in providing nice artificial habitats.

60 years ago the priority was very much slanted to food production at whatever cost it took to feed our population from our own resources. There were grants for farm amalgamations, mass drainage, training for improving ground and productivity and schemes to reduce rabbits badgers, foxes and birds or prey. Trapping of birds and animals was encouraged and widespread.

And yet, we are told there was more biodiversity and more birds. Those idiot 'conservationists' or 'greens' of today just cannot accept that unless those animals at the top of the food chain are kept to manageable numbers, they decimate the animals and birds that they prey upon. It has to be 'the farmer's are the buggers at fault!'

As you say in your first sentence, hedges are NOT natural features of the countryside. They were physically erected, not so long ago actually, to improve the management of farm livestock. To improve productivity and provide shelter when necessary.
While I'm not against hedges, there are parts of the country that have at least twice the length of hedges required for efficient production with modern machinery and often where there is no longer any grazing livestock present. There is as much shelter in a twenty acre field as there is in a five acre field. The both generally have four hedges boxing them in.
Over this side of the country, hedges only make up a tiny proportion of wooded and 'waste' areas and where farmers were sensible enough to make use of the grants of the 50's to late 70's to amalgamate field, they are generally now at a sensible size of between 5 and 25 acres, depending on topography and land use, which is acceptable to everyone. Where they are smaller, it become uneconomical to farm in many cases and the temptation then is to develop them into caravan sites or just build houses on them if in a suitable location.

We are extremely fortunate that it is farmers that decide what to do with their land rather than some Council committee made up of semi-educated idiots like some mentioned in these types of topics on TFF, otherwise the place would be a complete shambles. Where farmers are totally prevented from managing their land you get dozens of birds of prey following tractors rather than songbirds and animal life dominated by aggressive predators like badgers, foxes who decimate the biodiversity so sought after by the soppy do-gooders, who then project the blame back to farmers who are doing exactly what they are told and getting the very results that they were warned would happen by those farmers.

Fallowfield · Oct 9, 2018

joe soapy said:
You have to realise that the majority of farmers are the result of selective breeding over millennia.''
/QUOTE]

I'd like to think you're joking, but I have my doubts.

Have some of that Chris Packham

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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