"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Kiwi Pete · Oct 10, 2018

I knew you weren't, really

I can better see now what you mean about the humps and bumps, really quite intriguing (especially if I don't have to deal with it)

I would imagine with that degree of movement any drainage would soon find itself running uphill, would that be right?

There is actually very little drainage here, other than the creeks and actual watercourses we probably only have a hundred yards of tiles and maybe 30 yards of neverflo on the place.
If it's wet I tend to just erect a fence-to-nowhere up the gut, so the cattle can't walk through it repeatedly and bugger it up on top, and fence off edges and corners for the same reason.
That's one of the better things about block grazing here, they aren't always huddled in the same corner/ standing at the same gateway/ gathered around the trough like they used to be, and it shows already.

Have finally warmed up lamby lamb and tubed her, lamb warmer boxes are bloody excellent things on occasion

Kiwi Pete · Oct 10, 2018

ShooTa said:
i ended up making some mexican hat connectors for joining wires - didnt take too long - couple of bits of normal electrical wire, a few bits of heatshrink and abit of stiffer wire (think it was actually undergate lead out wire) for the hat ends.

anywhosal as ive got to take the car to get a towbar fitted (old farm car is not likely to pass mot) then im going to have a wee search for seaweed locations as im near the coast for 2 hours waiting for the instal.

I have a few bits of undergate for jumpers too but they tend to get used wet - and give me a hell of a boot

So I use those fancy alligator clips and have a big box of wiring out of an old washing machine with spade terminals on.

I found I could buy 10 alligator clips for the price of one ready-made lead, and yes I am that tight!

It isn't the spending, it's the principle of paying too much for bugger all; others may just pay what it costs and moan "it's robbery", but I have kids watching my moves

I realise now just how much I picked up off my old man, and how by making farming easy and enjoyable it drew me in - I really don't mind if my lads want to farm or not, but I would like to involve them in a system that's cheap and cheerful

not one built around fear, and buying stuff.

Unsure if "regenerative" farming is limited to making the land better, or encompasses making living from the land something the next generation want to be involved in... but it is much easier to teach decisionmaking when everyone knows what we are trying to achieve

Don't know how I jumped from jumper leads to my succession plan, but hey ho

holwellcourtfarm · Oct 10, 2018

Kiwi Pete said:
I knew you weren't, really

I can better see now what you mean about the humps and bumps, really quite intriguing (especially if I don't have to deal with it)
I would imagine with that degree of movement any drainage would soon find itself running uphill, would that be right?

There is actually very little drainage here, other than the creeks and actual watercourses we probably only have a hundred yards of tiles and maybe 30 yards of neverflo on the place.
If it's wet I tend to just erect a fence-to-nowhere up the gut, so the cattle can't walk through it repeatedly and bugger it up on top, and fence off edges and corners for the same reason.
That's one of the better things about block grazing here, they aren't always huddled in the same corner/ standing at the same gateway/ gathered around the trough like they used to be, and it shows already.

Have finally warmed up lamby lamb and tubed her, lamb warmer boxes are bloody excellent things on occasionView attachment 725654

Ahem, #petlamb

Kiwi Pete · Oct 10, 2018

holwellcourtfarm said:
Ahem, #petlamb

I hope not

Currently hosing down so she is best in the heated lamb box, really up and boogying with a few oz. of warm colostrum and a decent warm-up; hopefully mum will take her lamb back OK now she isn't doing death-rolls, and has a voice

Funny looking lambs these dorpers though, cross between a goat kid and a plucked duck

Henarar · Oct 10, 2018

Kiwi Pete said:
I would imagine with that degree of movement any drainage would soon find itself running uphill, would that be right?

it don't do them any good I wouldn't think but there are no wet spots like you get with a blocked drain

Kiwi Pete said:
I can better see now what you mean about the humps and bumps, really quite intriguing (especially if I don't have to deal with it)

its a job to take a photo that shows what happens, it just doesn't show up for some reason, when your passing call in and I will show you

Agrispeed · Oct 10, 2018

A tip to fencers in the field with animals, especially young ones who chew everything is to replace the live connector cable with some polywire. Since doing this I don't have any issues with calves chewing them...

Kiwi Pete · Oct 10, 2018

Henarar said:
it don't do them any good I wouldn't think but there are no wet spots like you get with a blocked drain

its a job to take a photo that shows what happens, it just doesn't show up for some reason, when your passing call in and I will show you

I learnt that last part in my contractor days, if it looks steep from the road then you have an interesting job ahead

Odd how pictures distort reality, like that.

Do you sell a bit of firewood, I have often considered it as a bit of a retirement plan, but every second yard has logs piled up, not sure how much is in it to be honest.

Henarar · Oct 10, 2018

No I don't sell it my mate does, I suspect like lots of things there isn't so much in the job as expected

hendrebc · Oct 10, 2018

Firewood job is shite. Takes too much time doing them and no one wants to pay for them or pay enough for them anyway. They think the wood is free because it didn't cost anything to grow and no one appreciates how hard it is and how much time it takes to do. And every other idiot thinks it's easy money so are happy to work for free

let them do it

holwellcourtfarm · Oct 10, 2018

hendrebc said:
Firewood job is shite. Takes too much time doing them and no one wants to pay for them or pay enough for them anyway. They think the wood is free because it didn't cost anything to grow and no one appreciates how hard it is and how much time it takes to do. And every other idiot thinks it's easy money so are happy to work for free let them do it

A neighbour of ours offered to help me fell and cut up a dead oak tree here a few years ago in return for him having some logs. He worked in retail before retiring last year. After about 20 minutes with a chainsaw he gave up and sat the rest out while I cut it all up and loaded it.

Henarar · Oct 10, 2018

holwellcourtfarm said:
A neighbour of ours offered to help me fell and cut up a dead oak tree here a few years ago in return for him having some logs. He worked in retail before retiring last year. After about 20 minutes with a chainsaw he gave up and sat the rest out while I cut it all up and loaded it.

I always think that big trees are hard work its far easier to cut up hedge wood,

holwellcourtfarm · Oct 10, 2018

Henarar said:
I always think that big trees are hard work its far easier to cut up hedge wood,

But I like a challenge

I undid one section of the adjacent barbed wire fence and told him it the tree would fall through the gap. His face was a picture when it did just that

Samcowman · Oct 10, 2018

@Kiwi Pete if you fancy a bit of sport check out the ‘my suckler cows aren’t making any money’ thread. The boss reckons he has to keep his cattle in because he needs the dung but you know next week he will be moaning about losing subs.
Couldn’t help getting stuck in!!!!

Kiwi Pete · Oct 10, 2018

I was more thinking along the lines of getting one of those firewood processors than turns logs into split wood, and just seasoning it at home.
Maybe even quite a good way to justify a toy like a skidsteer, which would be just handy enough, and give Sarah something to potter away at and give her an income stream.. she is involved in the farm of course, but there is so little to do on it.

Can chalk this one up to the lamb warming box and stomach tube - straight back with mum and her sister. Pretty chuffed

Kiwi Pete · Oct 10, 2018

Samcowman said:
@Kiwi Pete if you fancy a bit of sport check out the ‘my suckler cows aren’t making any money’ thread. The boss reckons he has to keep his cattle in because he needs the dung but you know next week he will be moaning about losing subs.
Couldn’t help getting stuck in!!!!

Yep I did read that thread 'til he came along talking about his yields..

I think he would sit backwards on the horse and whip the cart to go on, personally, call me greedy but I would rather make more money for less effort if possible.
What's feeding his soil when all his straw is sat on concrete? Bag muck.

Crofter64 · Oct 11, 2018

ShooTa said:
Quick vid of the move today.......finally got around to getting a few more reels so hopefully will be on 3 reels for 3 strands rather than 1 rell per 3 strands......

anywhosal vid on my insta below.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BortpIAAykR/

Nice looking sheep. They sure know the drill.

ShooTa · Oct 11, 2018

@Crofter64 thank you - the 20new ewes we picked up a month or so ago picked it up after 5 days i would say - theres still one who gets scared and has to be coaxed through but most of the time that video is the move - for which i am thankful.

Crofter64 · Oct 11, 2018

Henarar said:
I wasn't being cheeky
most of the investment we have done here is in sheds
drainage is interesting we have some fields that were drained and stoned and they don't seem any dryer than others that haven't had anything done for 50 years
lack of sunlight is a problem in some fields leading to it being wet, high hedges to the south particularly alongside the streams but a mate has bought a solution View attachment 725640 he can soon make a mess that's for sure, roll on nov 5th, good crop of firewood though, this field was to wet to drive along some places at the bottom even this year just through lack of sunshine
if you look you can see a hump across the field behind the slew that wasn't there 20 years ago and the middle of the field is very humpy now yet this field was drained properly but it don't stop it moving, we can't mow this now it will need ploughing and levelling off sometime, I am wondering if we are going to have trouble after this dry summer

You might think this is utter nonsense but in Permaculture, which tries to capture as much moisture as high up on your property as it can, most’swales ‘, or rather water collecting ditches are on the highest, longest contour. Could you not set something simple up like that to try and divert water away from that low spot( on contour mind you so you don’t just creare a massive gully in your field) . The other thing I’ve noticed with graziers on slopes is that they subdivide their larger fields for grazing according to contour and type of grass growing in different areas i.e north facing, steeper, west facing, crown. It makes the fences a bit awkward to work with but the thinking is that then you have similar types of grasses and conditions so animals don’t favour one over the other and the impact is the same over similar territory. This would maybe fit in with what @Kiwi Pete said about his polywire being his ditches. Perhaps he can elaborate. As I am on flat ground I don’t have to think about this much. The water issue is very important as we all know. We either have too much or too little, but with the permaculture swales the thinking is that you capture the water and it slowly infiltrates, thereby creating many long term benefits. Having to replough and re seed and possibly level the field won’t be cheap- it would be nice to get the animals to create the solution with a bit of ‘poly’ nudging.

Henarar · Oct 11, 2018

@Crofter64
I sort of get where you are coming from but maybe we have lost each other
the field in the pic has a stream down the bottom the area to both sides of the steam is heavily wooded being at the south side of the field it was preventing any sunlight getting in and drying the ground, we have had this problem in other fields with very high unkempt hedges and solved it by laying the hedge and keeping it cut low afterwards to let the sunshine in

The problem with the land moving is a separate problem, the soil on top doesn't move down the hill my theory is that there is greensand or something like that under the clay here and that becomes sodden with underground water and moves, some places the land will go down in a dip and in other places it will push up into a ridge like you can see on the pic

the stream is just behind the slew in this pic, the bit the slew is sat in is a pit I think the stream used to run there but has since cut a deeper channel out, we have cleared the bushes from the pit and I am going to let the cattle run in there
it may look a bit sacrilegious but we have cut it all off about six foot high so it will all grow again as we didn't want to kill it as it holds the banks of the stream
hope this makes some sense I will try to get some better pic's of what we have done

Crofter64 · Oct 12, 2018

Henarar said:
@Crofter64
I sort of get where you are coming from but maybe we have lost each other
the field in the pic has a stream down the bottom the area to both sides of the steam is heavily wooded being at the south side of the field it was preventing any sunlight getting in and drying the ground, we have had this problem in other fields with very high unkempt hedges and solved it by laying the hedge and keeping it cut low afterwards to let the sunshine in

The problem with the land moving is a separate problem, the soil on top doesn't move down the hill my theory is that there is greensand or something like that under the clay here and that becomes sodden with underground water and moves, some places the land will go down in a dip and in other places it will push up into a ridge like you can see on the pic
View attachment 726062 the stream is just behind the slew in this pic, the bit the slew is sat in is a pit I think the stream used to run there but has since cut a deeper channel out, we have cleared the bushes from the pit and I am going to let the cattle run in there
it may look a bit sacrilegious but we have cut it all off about six foot high so it will all grow again as we didn't want to kill it as it holds the banks of the stream
hope this makes some sense I will try to get some better pic's of what we have done

You have explained your situation very well. I didn’t know about the stream, but it makes sense. I still think my point aboutkeeping grazing areas consistent , in terms of slope or aspect is valid though. Straight lines are convinient for us but don’t always serve the land as well.

"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

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