promises promises

Hampton

Member
BASIS
Location
Shropshire
Or just transfer the Ltd Co shares to the workers on an annual basis, based on some formula around effort spent? Speak to an accountant, but that would be my plan. No need to cause any cash flow problems to the company.
Why would it cause me cash flow problems. I’ve earnt well in previous jobs, I don’t intend for that to end
 

JD-Kid

Member
so many fail to plan early on in the system
true. if the farm can't pay a full wage then should be paying in land or shears in the assets
if not sorted. there are alot of cases things have ended very bad families falling out in alot of cases and. a few cases ending up alot worse
kids should not be looking for a free lunch. but on the other hand families should not be looking for a free worker
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
Well how about paying the one who drives the tractor a respectable amount, and letting them save up to buy the farm off the siblings? The money doesn't need to leave the farm, but the accountant would need to help set it up.

If they really do want to graft a lifetime to get the assets, then just do it properly. They can buy off you and free you from the asset over time, which should surely avoid it going in care home costs too.

This I think is my point. What Gfw/tractor driving job allows you, after living expenses, house, car, rates etc to have enough extra cash to buy a farm?
If mum and/or dad are running the farm you are just a worker, how does that entitle you to owning a farm?

In the situation I posted up thread and again here...

Interesting idea.
Here's a situation I heard of recently to ponder.
Son 1 leaves school, family says you can go to university we'll help, son 1 says no I want to stay home and gets his way. Two years later son 2 leaves school and says the same thing but is told there's no room, (there wasn't really room for son 1 either) but again we'll help with university.
Son 2 goes to university, works in the holidays etc else where and with parents help finishes degree with no debt, but no money and goes off into the world and pays their own way.
Son 1 stays at home and gets a new pick up and a few toys because 'we helped son 2 with fee's' Son 1 gets a basic wage because its basic work and lives at home with no bills.
Fast forward 15 years son 1 is still at home son 2 still works in the ag industry.
The 'what do we do now' question is asked.
Ideas???

Here son number 2 is now financially in a better position to take over the farm than son 1 but number 1 thinks they should just be given it because they have worked there all their life.
What to do?
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
This I think is my point. What Gfw/tractor driving job allows you, after living expenses, house, car, rates etc to have enough extra cash to buy a farm?
If mum and/or dad are running the farm you are just a worker, how does that entitle you to owning a farm?

In the situation I posted up thread and again here...



Here son number 2 is now financially in a better position to take over the farm than son 1 but number 1 thinks they should just be given it because they have worked there all their life.
What to do?
Son 2 is better set up so he should buy his own farm.
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
This I think is my point. What Gfw/tractor driving job allows you, after living expenses, house, car, rates etc to have enough extra cash to buy a farm?
If mum and/or dad are running the farm you are just a worker, how does that entitle you to owning a farm?

Child doesn't need to buy a farm, just buy half of it, to buy out sibling. And really only a deposit towards that, on the basis that the farm will stand some debt and make profit after he inherits the equity. And a son/ daughter staying at home on the farm doesn't need a whole load of spending money - how many here claim to get fags and beer money and nothing more?

Oh, and a child working with the parents' farm isn't a GFW for long, they would deserve a bit more if they were running the farm too. Start buying equity and it becomes easier to justify that too.

Basically, speak to an accountant, make an agreement with your siblings and don't be a mug that works for a promise.
 

Frodo2

Member
Child doesn't need to buy a farm, just buy half of it, to buy out sibling. And really only a deposit towards that, on the basis that the farm will stand some debt and make profit after he inherits the equity. And a son/ daughter staying at home on the farm doesn't need a whole load of spending money - how many here claim to get fags and beer money and nothing more?

Oh, and a child working with the parents' farm isn't a GFW for long, they would deserve a bit more if they were running the farm too. Start buying equity and it becomes easier to justify that too.

Basically, speak to an accountant, make an agreement with your siblings and don't be a mug that works for a promise.
What if you are one of 7 kids?
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Buying out parents or siblings is not really a problem, if it is flagged up early and the valuation is done before the working sibling starts increasing the capital value.
 

The Agrarian

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
You need to find 6/7 of the farm value, or else accept that your parents will be selling up and you should sort yourself out with a career that pays enough to let you buy your own farm - which is possible, as many on here would testify.

Are you really suggesting that's the way it should be done?

Alright when farms were for giving away in the '30's. Too dear for that now.

If parents want to reduce the likelihood of their business being carried on in the next generation, this is the way to go about bringing the line to an end.
 

JD-Kid

Member
Buying out parents or siblings is not really a problem, if it is flagged up early and the valuation is done before the working sibling starts increasing the capital value.
only thing is some of the value will be just. due to rising land values and unless the kids being there. stoped the sale of the land earlyer it would be hard to realy work out
it's realy a hard one when you look at the price of say a house compared to say buying in to plant etc which unless payed at full market rates would be losing money even tho the farm may gain from it
worse one is kid works on farm. for years. then the the others come home wanting there. say believe me. that can be a kick in the guts
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
If you are told at age 16 that you will work the farm till father dies then have to buy out the others, you can walk away then.
A lot easier to walk at 16 than 56

16 may be a bit early, at that age I was only concerned with anything that had tits or tyres on it.

Expecting sons or daughters to work on the farm at 16 does nobody and favours, far more advantageous to both the kids and the business to gain experience working off the home farm, either on another farm or outside agriculture, also preferably if that experience is gained in another country. Our local vet told me several years ago you could generally see which of the younger farmers had worked somewhere else and definitely see those that had worked overseas.

By mid 20s some succession plan should be in place and in writing then there is always something to refer back to in the event of a dispute. I can think of several farms where the father dies and the sons/daughters end up fighting over the farm, essentially many of them have to start again when they are approaching their 60s if everyone knows where they stand from the start plans can be made accordingly, it can also help prevent a family fallout.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
16 may be a bit early, at that age I was only concerned with anything that had tits or tyres on it.

Expecting sons or daughters to work on the farm at 16 does nobody and favours, far more advantageous to both the kids and the business to gain experience working off the home farm, either on another farm or outside agriculture, also preferably if that experience is gained in another country. Our local vet told me several years ago you could generally see which of the younger farmers had worked somewhere else and definitely see those that had worked overseas.

By mid 20s some succession plan should be in place and in writing then there is always something to refer back to in the event of a dispute. I can think of several farms where the father dies and the sons/daughters end up fighting over the farm, essentially many of them have to start again when they are approaching their 60s if everyone knows where they stand from the start plans can be made accordingly, it can also help prevent a family fallout.
16 is the age to tell them, in fact earlier before school options are taken might be better.
No one said they have to start working at home at 16, just that they should be told the truth.
 

Cowcorn

Member
Mixed Farmer
You need to find 6/7 of the farm value, or else accept that your parents will be selling up and you should sort yourself out with a career that pays enough to let you buy your own farm - which is possible, as many on here would testify.
With good arable land valued at 14000 + euros acre i would love your suggestions on how the gullible son who stayed at home working for keep and pocket money is going to pay off his siblings given that the returns from farming are totally at odds with the price of land.
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
With good arable land valued at 14000 + euros acre i would love your suggestions on how the gullible son who stayed at home working for keep and pocket money is going to pay off his siblings given that the returns from farming are totally at odds with the price of land.

I agree, so the fallback is the farm is shared, or sold. Or the parents could do the responsible thing and limit their output of children to a sensible number.

How could it be fair for your older brother/ sister to be given a silver spoon, just for being born earlier? Above all else, I want any offspring of mine to learn fairness and equity.

Edit - I don't like the word gullible. All parties deserve to know their legal position, and be given equal rights to work for a decent wage, deferred or not.
 

graham99

Member
Yes many a farm has been saved due to the hard work of sons/daughters and i'm glad your situation worked out well.
You can see how things get complicated quickly for some families though. What if there wasn't enough work for two brothers to stay at home or they fell out along the way. More brothers and sisters would make things complicated and of course there's always the chance dad only leaves the farm to one brother because he thinks the other ones wife is a gold digger.
There's also the problem on some farms when dad still runs the farm and hasn't handed over responsibility and his grandkids are leaving school, do you skip a generation as 'the son' might be close to retiring.
Not hard to see how lawyers make a fortune out of it all.
i have seen farms tear the strongest family's apart.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.1%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 67 35.3%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,294
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top