"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Blaithin

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Alberta
I know @Kiwi Pete had asked about ground cover going into winter. The replies included "something to catch the snow!"

Well I was out getting my monthly photos this morning after a bit of snow last night and a bit more wind. The back pasture has been grazed quite far down - obviously since even the buckbrush doesn't really have leaves left :facepalm: - but it makes it quite apparent how plants can act as wind catches for snow.

Here you can see how just one sage can collect a little pile while all the grass behind it is still visible.
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And this little line of stripped buckbrush has little banks on the leeward side.
IMG_3966.jpg
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
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Plantain in flower here. Amazing how many plants are in 1kg/ha. This is the remnants of last year's cover crop, hopefully we get the right conditions to get the cattle trampling some seed in, I'll broadcast about 5kg/ha of red clover on and mob them up tight.
 

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Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Apologies if this has been posted before, afraid I didn't watch all the vids when I was trying to catch up the thread, but I found this really interesting. Will be searching out some more like that with the practical advice and know how.

Surely letting the herd roam on all your farm is set stocking? He did mention adding fences later but isn't that just a brief history of farming?
Also just increasing numbers is a sure way to fail long term, it's about judging numbers the land can take, this varies every year.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Apologies if this has been posted before, afraid I didn't watch all the vids when I was trying to catch up the thread, but I found this really interesting. Will be searching out some more like that with the practical advice and know how.

That was (as always) a really enlightening video.
Interesting his distinction between "fencing" and herding, I have been watching my bulls herding each other and it makes perfect sense... they have tremendous impact for that reason, for their liveweight and intake I don't know how they could be better for the purpose.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Surely letting the herd roam on all your farm is set stocking? He did mention adding fences later but isn't that just a brief history of farming?
Also just increasing numbers is a sure way to fail long term, it's about judging numbers the land can take, this varies every year.
Not sure where the "roaming all your farm" bit comes from. He did say the cattle had 3 days in that paddock.
But it was Savory's talk I was more interested in - and whilst he talked about increasing numbers - he was very much pushing the planning of grazing days bit.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Surely letting the herd roam on all your farm is set stocking? He did mention adding fences later but isn't that just a brief history of farming?
Also just increasing numbers is a sure way to fail long term, it's about judging numbers the land can take, this varies every year.
These are probably technically still timeframe issues as opposed to animal numbers per se?
We (due to fixed animal costs) much more driven to individual animal performance, for example what we can house has a bearing on many decisions, or how many cows we can milk, those type of constraints? (Prejudices)
Whereas in a livestock trading / ranching sense, numbers could be more easily varied to suit the season than in a more intensive farming context.
For example I would be more profitable stocking up now and trading them off to suit growth than sticking to 80 cattle for 12 months, that much is obvious, those 80 animals need then to be pampered to generate the same production per square mile or per head, which is generally where our focus lies (and that is a "set stocking rate") - maybe that is why some operations are eminently more profitable than others, as the carbon is cycled much cheaper than we can perhaps do in a "system"

At the moment it would be much easier in my context to have 220 cattle gaining 1.1 per day than 100 gaining 2.5 each, on pasture alone, so I see where he is coming from.
Unfortunately many of the man-made hurdles to keeping livestock make it an academic exercise!
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Not sure where the "roaming all your farm" bit comes from. He did say the cattle had 3 days in that paddock.
But it was Savory's talk I was more interested in - and whilst he talked about increasing numbers - he was very much pushing the planning of grazing days bit.
Sorry, Roaming all the farm was my words for leaving a herd graze the whole ranch with no fencing.
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
These are probably technically still timeframe issues as opposed to animal numbers per se?
We (due to fixed animal costs) much more driven to individual animal performance, for example what we can house has a bearing on many decisions, or how many cows we can milk, those type of constraints? (Prejudices)
Whereas in a livestock trading / ranching sense, numbers could be more easily varied to suit the season than in a more intensive farming context.
For example I would be more profitable stocking up now and trading them off to suit growth than sticking to 80 cattle for 12 months, that much is obvious, those 80 animals need then to be pampered to generate the same production per square mile or per head, which is generally where our focus lies (and that is a "set stocking rate") - maybe that is why some operations are eminently more profitable than others, as the carbon is cycled much cheaper than we can perhaps do in a "system"

At the moment it would be much easier in my context to have 220 cattle gaining 1.1 per day than 100 gaining 2.5 each, on pasture alone, so I see where he is coming from.
Unfortunately many of the man-made hurdles to keeping livestock make it an academic exercise!
I get your approach to it Kp, from your posts it's put in as little work for highest return ( so you have time for family & doing other stuff, which is what we all should be trying to achieve), lots of stock in field for short time move on quickly & I think sometimes you have alot of stock but not all the time. Where as I took it he meant maintain those high stocking rates & keep increasing them.
As a Organic farmer this rings alarm bells , most of the problems I see with modern farming is the intensity of numbers, most of the diseases we have in modern agriculture have always been around but by packing animals together these diseases seem more prevalent .
He did mention rest periods but didn't come across as over worried because soil didn't need a break (can't quite remember the wording he used ) , to me it's not just about the soil or the grass , it's the interaction with the animals as well ( the soil web if you like ) so the break is needed to reduce worm burden on the cattle / sheep as well as plants being able to regenerate.
Some of what he said in the Video I agree with less groups of cattle , intense grazing for short periods I already do .
With most livestock farms I would of said the first thing needed to improve the whole "system " is fencing whether it's for paddock / mob or strip grazing not employing extra man power to move the herd & keep them in a area with dogs or men on horse back.
 

Treg

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Not sure where the "roaming all your farm" bit comes from. He did say the cattle had 3 days in that paddock.
But it was Savory's talk I was more interested in - and whilst he talked about increasing numbers - he was very much pushing the planning of grazing days bit.
Please don't get me wrong @Poorbuthappy I found it interesting but as @Farmer Roy always says these videos are posted for us to discuss & by me maybe taking it slightly different & the rest of you replying speeds up the learning process for me & everyone else:)
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

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