Dealing with depression - suicidal thoughts - Join the conversation (including helpline details)

Blaithin said:

Yep, that's it.

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a little off topic, but it made me think of this song
I love the emotional transition the singer makes from a position of weakness to one of strength at the end

That was my biggest mental hurdle - letting go of the illusion that you get through life without being hit by something.

I think that when I put the "happily ever after" myth to bed, was the day I began to get my life back.

It is the best feeling you'll ever get, the liberation of no longer wishing to live forever, of dying tonight, of pleasing everyone else through your actions, of trying to maintain what cannot be maintained.... it might not be happily, it won't be for ever, but there can be an "after"

"After", I soon found out, was near enough.

It's a case of acknowledging what is real and what is not, sometimes.

I had a pair of Paradise Shelduck breed on our little pond this year, the first day I saw their 6 offspring take to the wing - I sat under a big old pine tree and bawled for an hour or more.

Life's like that, our "training" says it's not OK to cry when we see such beauty, or laugh at our fears - I let go of that, too.

not perfect . . .

Visiting daughter and family in New Zealand over Christmas and January she bought me a book called the resilient farmer by Doug Avery a very interesting book about depression i never reliased how it affects so many people and there family's stay safe everyone out there

cokey1955 said:

Visiting daughter and family in New Zealand over Christmas and January she bought me a book called the resilient farmer by Doug Avery a very interesting book about depression i never reliased how it affects so many people and there family's stay safe everyone out there

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Great read, we often tend to work harder to solve our problems, some of the challenges farmers face will never be solved by hard graft - being reactive is utterly exhausting, and our natural reaction is reaction!
Or, we let our guard down and play games with ourselves.

I was fairly downbeat last summer (not depressed, just frustrated) and went for a special trip to town to buy it as a pick-me-up - it felt good to have someone else "in the same boat" and I set changes in place, within hours, that have had massive effects.

I messaged Doug, we had a great chat on the phone, he's a fantastic guy in that way.
He was fairly well used to it, I'd expect, but he said he was happy that his book had helped so many, we just have to look out for each other.

Kiwi Pete said:

Great read, we often tend to work harder to solve our problems, some of the challenges farmers face will never be solved by hard graft - being reactive is utterly exhausting, and our natural reaction is reaction!
Or, we let our guard down and play games with ourselves.

I was fairly downbeat last summer (not depressed, just frustrated) and went for a special trip to town to buy it as a pick-me-up - it felt good to have someone else "in the same boat" and I set changes in place, within hours, that have had massive effects.

I messaged Doug, we had a great chat on the phone, he's a fantastic guy in that way.
He was fairly well used to it, I'd expect, but he said he was happy that his book had helped so many, we just have to look out for each other.

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I think we all have our down days weather livestock machinery financial problems some we can change some we can't !sometimes it helps to get away relax and think with a clear head after I read that book ' makes any problems i have had seem very small and nothing compared to a lot of people on this thread

Perhaps it is only good or bad because I see it so. It is what it is and I can then let it go. The Jews, they call it Kabballah or Reception but perhaps acceptance is a better word. Easier said than done, I know!

Strange, just reading it this morning.

Christoph1945 said:

Perhaps it is only good or bad because I see it so. It is what it is and I can then let it go. The Jews, they call it Kabballah or Reception but perhaps acceptance is a better word. Easier said than done, I know!

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"Reason shows us there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."
Seneca

Hmmmm, as a man (person) thinketh then so is he/she.

But also remember that diet can distort our thinking. Alcohol, caffeine, recreational drugs, and even wheat and gluten can distort our perception and thinking. They tell us that Adam and Eve had their eyes opened to good and evil after eating the forbidden fruit and their son Cain, who was probably on the same diet, became paranoid and killed his brother, Able. Some Jews actually believe that wheat was the forbidden fruit.

Perhaps stretching the point somewhat but after partaking of the bread and wine at the last supper Judas took offence at being asked if he hadn't something to do and went and betrayed his master; after which he descended into despair.

I fully agree with letting go of things if it's at all possible.

However, on a practical level a pack of 100 Honeywell Howard Sleight Laser Lite ear plugs allowed me a relatively undisturbed night of sleep last night for the first time in a long while. Ordered online, they are better than anything I can find on the high street.

What a difference a small inexpensive change makes.

The wonder the internet ... .'a mine of information' …...

Farmer Roy said:

& self medication with alcohol, sex, work etc. I have held the shotgun in my hand. I have worked out many suicide scenarios, depending if I want it to look like an accident, if I want to send a message, or if I don't want my body to ever be found. I have wallowed in the very pit of despair & I have also learnt how to be self aware, recognise my mental condition & ( generally ) manage it reasonably well & drag myself up again. Even though I am relatively stable now, I still think about suicide at least a few times a month. When I am in a low spot, it is daily & constant . . . Death itself has no fear to me, it is the way we die ( or the way we live ? ) that holds greater fear or misery. From a suicide point of view, my biggest fear is the effect it may have on ones left behind ( that is the ONLY reason I never pulled the trigger. I have regretted that decision at times to . . . ). Anyway, I am comfortable enough with death & have seen enough of it to know that it will be MY choice ( barring a car accident or something ) when I go, wearing boots & while still reasonably fit & active - no slippers or nursing homes for me. That is not depression or suicidal tendencies talking, just my "end of life plan"

anyway - back to "she let go"
no, that moment in time she creates for herself IS going to be disrupted at some point, all the sh!t from life will still be there & its not about pretending everything is wonderful & perfect.
it is telling us to make the time to just stop. Stop thinking. Stop worrying. Stop working. Just let go. Even if for a moment, to give yourself a break
just like mindfulness, meditation, yoga, exercise, running - whatever, just take the time every now & then to actually, relax, enjoy something, focus on positives or just clear the mind of everything
In many ways, that is what we are trying to do when we self medicate with drugs, alcohol, sex, over working or whatever,

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mmm just for the record how does one go about self medicating with..sex.
Asking for a friend

And what s the name of that antidepressant .....again asking for a friend

haha - asking for a friend

I suppose I meant in a similar way you would use drugs or alcohol. As a distraction, short term instant gratification, combined with unsafe or excessive or inappropriate use ? Nothing wrong with having a beer with some mates, but you have issues if you start drinking as soon as you wake up. Nothing wrong with good healthy fun consenting sex ( either within a relationship or casual ), but excessive promiscuity, lots of meaningless casual sex , bad relationships, not taking into account the other persons feelings / emotions, using it as a "commodity", even excessive / repeated masturbation for that climax ?? . . . im not sure Im explaining my self very well . . .
I suppose in a similar way you get "celebrities" claiming they are "sex addicts" and as such aren't really responsible for their actions or behaviour - its an "addiction" ? I suppose we all have our own ideas or boundaries as to what constitutes acceptable sexual behaviour & what is negative or destructive . . .

I hope you appreciate how open I have been with you here

drug was paroxetine. Of the below list of side effects, increased anxiety & delayed orgasm were the only ones I noticed. If anything, sex drive increased, but maybe that was because I was being self destructive or looking for distraction ? I don't know ? Feeling a little embarrassed Ive mentioned all this now . . .

all good - Im an open book

Common side effects may include:

• vision changes;
• weakness, drowsiness, dizziness;
• sweating, anxiety, shaking;
• sleep problems (insomnia);
• loss of appetite, constipation;
• dry mouth, yawning; or.
• decreased sex drive, impotence, or difficulty having an orgasm.

Common Side Effects of Paxil (Paroxetine Hydrochloride) Drug Center ...

https://www.rxlist.com/paxil-side-effects-drug-center.htm

I'm still addicted to taking risks, I think it can be hard-wired into some of us.
I'm getting the risk management side of it worked out as I age.

But I can definitely see the addiction attraction, whatever your poison - mine is trading.

Farmer Roy said:

haha - asking for a friend

I suppose I meant in a similar way you would use drugs or alcohol. As a distraction, short term instant gratification, combined with unsafe or excessive or inappropriate use ? Nothing wrong with having a beer with some mates, but you have issues if you start drinking as soon as you wake up. Nothing wrong with good healthy fun consenting sex ( either within a relationship or casual ), but excessive promiscuity, lots of meaningless casual sex , bad relationships, not taking into account the other persons feelings / emotions, using it as a "commodity", even excessive / repeated masturbation for that climax ?? . . . im not sure Im explaining my self very well . . .
I suppose in a similar way you get "celebrities" claiming they are "sex addicts" and as such aren't really responsible for their actions or behaviour - its an "addiction" ? I suppose we all have our own ideas or boundaries as to what constitutes acceptable sexual behaviour & what is negative or destructive . . .

I hope you appreciate how open I have been with you here

drug was paroxetine. Of the below list of side effects, increased anxiety & delayed orgasm were the only ones I noticed. If anything, sex drive increased, but maybe that was because I was being self destructive or looking for distraction ? I don't know ? Feeling a little embarrassed Ive mentioned all this now . . .

all good - Im an open book

Common side effects may include:

• vision changes;
• weakness, drowsiness, dizziness;
• sweating, anxiety, shaking;
• sleep problems (insomnia);
• loss of appetite, constipation;
• dry mouth, yawning; or.
• decreased sex drive, impotence, or difficulty having an orgasm.

Common Side Effects of Paxil (Paroxetine Hydrochloride) Drug Center ...

https://www.rxlist.com/paxil-side-effects-drug-center.htm

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I was just joking
But thanks for sharing
I m reading all this and I kind of realized my friend has some serious alchool issues. She s going through some hard time and I can see she is using alchool to self medicate. I can see other people have discussed this with her as she s getting very defensive about it.
I can only be here and supportive for the moment I guess.

Being supportive is SO much better than being judgemental . . .

Personally, I think it's ok to use alcohol or drugs as a bit of a short term crutch to get you through, if that's what it takes. We all need a bit of oblivion at times If it becomes habit forming, or becomes something you are constantly thinking about or can't function without or starts impacting on relationships ect - that's when it's a problem.

I think all you can do is be a friend, be supportive, listen or help her through her hard time, just be there for her & not focus on the drinking at all ( unless it is becoming really serious & putting her at risk or something ) Hopefully, if her situation improves then the drinking may reduce . . .

Have a look at this, it may help
https://www.soberinthecountry.com.au/
Or her FB page

Christoph1945 said:

Hmmmm, as a man (person) thinketh then so is he/she.

But also remember that diet can distort our thinking. Alcohol, caffeine, recreational drugs, and even wheat and gluten can distort our perception and thinking. They tell us that Adam and Eve had their eyes opened to good and evil after eating the forbidden fruit and their son Cain, who was probably on the same diet, became paranoid and killed his brother, Able. Some Jews actually believe that wheat was the forbidden fruit.

Perhaps stretching the point somewhat but after partaking of the bread and wine at the last supper Judas took offence at being asked if he hadn't something to do and went and betrayed his master; after which he descended into despair.

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Cain killed his brother Able out of jealousy. By this time they were expelled from the garden of Eden so what they ate was what they grew. Able was a keeper of stock and Cain was a tiller of the earth. He killed able because Yahweh (God) didn't accept just offerings from the earth, he needed offerings from both animal and ground, not just one, which able provided whereas Cain didn't. The first occurrence of murder in history. Although after he was expelled and given a mark of protection so any man who tried to kill him would be killed, because he was protected by Yahweh. Consequently Adam and Eve were given another son, Seth, by whom the nation's came out of.
Judas didn't betray Iesous (Jesus) because he was passed the sop at dinner, the last supper, he betrayed him because he didn't understand what or who Iesous was. He may have thought that he'd be let go after he'd been caught by the Pharisees. We see that when he sees that they in fact killed him he realizes his mistake, which by then is too late, and he kills himself. It was because of greed that he betrayed Iesous, he wanted the money. This was all ordained tho that it would happen. Iesous chose his disciples knowing what would happen, which must have made it even harder when he was choosing yudas.

Farmer Roy said:

I never said it was easy . . .

there is no miracle cure, silver bullet or happily ever after . . .
…………..

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It really wasn't my intention to belittle your post, even though that's effectively what I did - my apologies. Sometimes when we appear to re-act in an angry fashion, it's only ourselves who we're pee'd off with!

I was interested to hear about your thoughts regarding self-medication, something I've done for many years. I've attempted to explain it to others, but have come to the conclusion that depression is multifaceted and can be found as mildly superficial just as it is, all encompassing. I always offer the caveat that in my case, perhaps the answers were easily found because perhaps my 'condition' was relatively mild.
I've never resorted to pharma-meds, and I never will. I don't want idyllic, I simply want to be a level above coping - the level where I see hope and purpose.
I divorced at the age of 35 and was plunged in to an even deeper sense of loss and futility, than before. Accepting what a pr*ck I was and that this beautiful, giving and lovely person couldn't cope with me any longer, didn't help. It wasn't until I was perhaps 40+ that I suddenly - and the realisation took perhaps a week to settle in, realised and accepted that I had been depressed just about all my life. Even as a child, the appalling behaviour and as I grew, the increasing levels of violence, were simply an expression of my deepening unhappiness. If we don't like ourselves, how can we expect others to do so?
Self medication - if we can achieve it, is the way forward. I honestly believe that depression is nearly always because of a lack-of-hope. We see no future and so we start to look at the spiral below us. Are we depressed because we see that there is no-hope, or do we feel that there is no-hope because of depression? Can it be either - can it be a combination? I'm no trickcyclist, so I don't know!
The major burden that men carry about with them is the inability to simply say - "I can't cope". Those of us who are seen as bullish and determined will carry the additional penalty that the world sees us as being strong and determined and focused and capable and all that old rubbish, and the simple fact is that sometimes, we fu****g well aren't.
Faith, Hope and Charity, and without Hope, we won't have it's bedfellows.