Dealing with depression - suicidal thoughts - Join the conversation (including helpline details)

Dangerous Dan · Jan 7, 2019

Texel Tup said:
I honestly believe that depression is nearly always because of a lack-of-hope. We see no future and so we start to look at the spiral below us. Are we depressed because we see that there is no-hope, or do we feel that there is no-hope because of depression? Can it be either - can it be a combination? .

I'm not so sure I agree with this. I personally have to look forward to the "next". Be it an event during the week, changes in work, big events like lambing, clipping, calves in or out or simply a date, a birthday, or just getting each milking out of the way till weekends are over. It's my coping mechanism, not always fool proof but generally works.

However, even with that, I get sideswiped. Last Tuesday was the classic. Helping a work friend with a listening ear, nothing new..... Suddenly got swiped by memories, anger, sadness etc etc. This wasn't a lack of hope or future. I'm. Trying to push forward to make a better future than the past that has obviously done the damage.

Not sure where I'm going with this......just wanted to throw a halfpenny worth in.

Christoph1945 · Jan 7, 2019

Sometimes suicide is initiated by anger "I'll show them and they will be sorry then!". The same anger can promote folk to betray others and then fall into despair at having done so. Or maybe it's just all down to plain old despair and frustration!

Which ever it is that triggers the downward trend, there are ways of intervention, rescue, and recovery.

Many of us are time travellers and spend time either in the past, or in the future and suffer the loss of the moment. An old acquaintance, who was an Anglican priest, used to describe it as a faulty conscience. Some feel guilty over past events and some fear future consequences. Of course some are strung up on both and are crucified in the moment and need a way out.

Chemical and hormone imbalance can, of course, account for vast innumerable numbers of depressed folk.

Dan...………….it sounds like your chat struck a chord within your life. I think musicians call it harmonics.

Gong Farmer · Jan 7, 2019

Many years ago I went to a GP with a long-running (physical) problem that flared up occasionally, hence the need for professional help and prescription of strong medicine. I had seen the same GP many times, but recently he had been diagnosed with a fatal illness and didn't have long to live, but he wanted to carry on to the end. Not surprisingly he was fairly philosophical and after examining me said he could see the problem had flared up, but after so much time with it I must know what caused it to do so, and could probably manage it and stop it happening again. He still gave me a prescription, but it got me thinking and with his wisdom and 'self-medication' I have hardly suffered at all since.

It struck me that this applies to any condition, physical or mental. i.e. the sufferer is far more familiar with their condition and can track how it behaves and what aggravates it.

Last night I watched a video by a chap who felt that asking a doctor to take care of your illness was handing over control of it to someone else, whereas you are better qualified to address it. Similar way of thinking, I suppose.

Greenbeast · Jan 7, 2019

Jameshenry said:
I'm a good way through the book now, and i couldn't help smiling and thinking to myself perhaps the way i think about life, is somewhat stoical, probably why i don't crave to be wealthy , and enjoy the simple things in life,
I'm not sure it's a book for everyone though, i think you probably have to have a little of the stoical mindset to appreciate it, good read though

How did you get on in the end?

DrWazzock · Jan 7, 2019

I think depression can arise out of suppressed frustration or disappointment with people or events.

Instead of taking action, changjng course or telling people exactly what we think and doing something about it (probably because we are constrained by financial, religious or some other reasons or we just don't have the balls), we soldier on, repressing our annoyance. Unfortunately it then corrodes us from within and manifests itself as some kind of mental health issue such as insomnia, depression, getting angry over trivial matters, making skewed decisions etc. By then we have probably suppressed the initial cause of the frustration to such an extent, or we are in denial of it, that we can't even work out why are depressed as it's now a self sustaining illness.

I have seen a lot of this effect with bad marriages or bad business partnerships. One partner ends up extremely dissatisfied or frustrated but soldiers on as they are financially or emotionally committed and it would be a hell of blow up to undo it. I have seen depressed and suicidal kids caught up in their parents poisonous relationships. They can't escape it.

But there again there are ups and downs in all partnerships and relationships and the grass often looks greener elsewhere. The critical thing is to be able decide when the game is no longer worth the candle and that the risks of getting out and charting a new course are better than the slow corrosion of mind and body associated with doing nothing and staying in.

spin cycle · Jan 7, 2019

Texel Tup said:
It really wasn't my intention to belittle your post, even though that's effectively what I did - my apologies. Sometimes when we appear to re-act in an angry fashion, it's only ourselves who we're pee'd off with!

I was interested to hear about your thoughts regarding self-medication, something I've done for many years. I've attempted to explain it to others, but have come to the conclusion that depression is multifaceted and can be found as mildly superficial just as it is, all encompassing. I always offer the caveat that in my case, perhaps the answers were easily found because perhaps my 'condition' was relatively mild.
I've never resorted to pharma-meds, and I never will. I don't want idyllic, I simply want to be a level above coping - the level where I see hope and purpose.
I divorced at the age of 35 and was plunged in to an even deeper sense of loss and futility, than before. Accepting what a plonker I was and that this beautiful, giving and lovely person couldn't cope with me any longer, didn't help. It wasn't until I was perhaps 40+ that I suddenly - and the realisation took perhaps a week to settle in, realised and accepted that I had been depressed just about all my life. Even as a child, the appalling behaviour and as I grew, the increasing levels of violence, were simply an expression of my deepening unhappiness. If we don't like ourselves, how can we expect others to do so?
Self medication - if we can achieve it, is the way forward. I honestly believe that depression is nearly always because of a lack-of-hope. We see no future and so we start to look at the spiral below us. Are we depressed because we see that there is no-hope, or do we feel that there is no-hope because of depression? Can it be either - can it be a combination? I'm no trickcyclist, so I don't know!
The major burden that men carry about with them is the inability to simply say - "I can't cope". Those of us who are seen as bullish and determined will carry the additional penalty that the world sees us as being strong and determined and focused and capable and all that old rubbish, and the simple fact is that sometimes, we fu****g well aren't.
Faith, Hope and Charity, and without Hope, we won't have it's bedfellows.

possibly the best summation of depression i've ever read......you're wrong about just one thing IMO....that is the self medicating route

medication doesn't work for everyone ...but for us lucky ones it does....my father suffered terribly most of his life...it wasn't until he saw seratonin uptake inhibitors work for me that he gave them a try and lived out his final years a lot happier

DrWazzock · Jan 7, 2019

However, nothing will ever be entirely perfect, so sometimes we just have to live with it. Make the best, seek some solace and consolation and soldier on. It's controversial, but I sometimes think that that is what religion is for. It's an acknowledgement that we live in an imperfect world and that instead of getting angry or upset about it, there is an alternative. We can let some of it go. We can be philosophical about it and be thankful for what little we do have. Thankful for small mercies and all that.

The whole thing is a deep and fascinating mystery, troublesome at times.

Farmer Roy · Jan 7, 2019

she just let go . . .

Bury the Trash · Jan 7, 2019

She must've been lucky then,

…..that she didn't have bad Bipolar disorder.

Texel Tup · Jan 7, 2019

Does it ever occur to any of us that there are those who sit and read what we write but can't somehow bring themselves to join in? Are there those who are struggling right now? - of course there are.
If you aren't sure whether to go for a pee or keep reading, do bear one thing in mind, Self Medication starts just as it does with pills - - when we open our mouths, or on here of course, our minds. There are the Samaritans, if you're unable to link up with your GP then a simple referral will be the way to go. ……..
There's here too - and here especially perhaps, you will talk with those who will know EXACTLY where you are, not councillors, just people in the very same boat.

holwellcourtfarm · Jan 8, 2019

DrWazzock said:
I think depression can arise out of suppressed frustration or disappointment with people or events.

Instead of taking action, changjng course or telling people exactly what we think and doing something about it (probably because we are constrained by financial, religious or some other reasons or we just don't have the balls), we soldier on, repressing our annoyance. Unfortunately it then corrodes us from within and manifests itself as some kind of mental health issue such as insomnia, depression, getting angry over trivial matters, making skewed decisions etc. By then we have probably suppressed the initial cause of the frustration to such an extent, or we are in denial of it, that we can't even work out why are depressed as it's now a self sustaining illness.

I have seen a lot of this effect with bad marriages or bad business partnerships. One partner ends up extremely dissatisfied or frustrated but soldiers on as they are financially or emotionally committed and it would be a hell of blow up to undo it. I have seen depressed and suicidal kids caught up in their parents poisonous relationships. They can't escape it.

But there again there are ups and downs in all partnerships and relationships and the grass often looks greener elsewhere. The critical thing is to be able decide when the game is no longer worth the candle and that the risks of getting out and charting a new course are better than the slow corrosion of mind and body associated with doing nothing and staying in.

Making big changes is almost never actually as hard in practice as we think it will be beforehand. At least it moves you on from the rut you have descended into. It's easy to allow yourself to just fritter your alloted time away and end up looking back on a depressed life if we are not careful.

As for how we relate to others, the clever part is in balancing the tendancy to be too reverential towards others' feelings (and getting down trodden as a result) or becoming the obnoxious, opinionated person everyone can't bear to be with (being too ready to tell others what you think of them).

I found I was drowning under the workload in my EA days when I was known as the "go to guy" to help everyone else find the info they needed to hit their targets. I talked it through with the fantastic manager I had at the time and he explained to me that it wasn't MY problem to get THEIR jobs done and that, unless I had the time and capacity spare, I should just say no with his full support. That lesson changed my life.

Bury the Trash · Jan 8, 2019

Texel Tup said:
Does it ever occur to any of us that there are those who sit and read what we write but can't somehow bring themselves to join in? Are there those who are struggling right now? - of course there are.
If you aren't sure whether to go for a pee or keep reading, do bear one thing in mind, Self Medication starts just as it does with pills - - when we open our mouths, or on here of course, our minds. There are the Samaritans, if you're unable to link up with your GP then a simple referral will be the way to go. ……..
There's here too - and here especially perhaps, you will talk with those who will know EXACTLY where you are, not councillors, just people in the very same boat.

That's for sure. get help and as a constant as well not just initially.

waterbuffalofarmer · Jan 8, 2019

Texel Tup said:
It really wasn't my intention to belittle your post, even though that's effectively what I did - my apologies. Sometimes when we appear to re-act in an angry fashion, it's only ourselves who we're pee'd off with!

I was interested to hear about your thoughts regarding self-medication, something I've done for many years. I've attempted to explain it to others, but have come to the conclusion that depression is multifaceted and can be found as mildly superficial just as it is, all encompassing. I always offer the caveat that in my case, perhaps the answers were easily found because perhaps my 'condition' was relatively mild.
I've never resorted to pharma-meds, and I never will. I don't want idyllic, I simply want to be a level above coping - the level where I see hope and purpose.
I divorced at the age of 35 and was plunged in to an even deeper sense of loss and futility, than before. Accepting what a plonker I was and that this beautiful, giving and lovely person couldn't cope with me any longer, didn't help. It wasn't until I was perhaps 40+ that I suddenly - and the realisation took perhaps a week to settle in, realised and accepted that I had been depressed just about all my life. Even as a child, the appalling behaviour and as I grew, the increasing levels of violence, were simply an expression of my deepening unhappiness. If we don't like ourselves, how can we expect others to do so?
Self medication - if we can achieve it, is the way forward. I honestly believe that depression is nearly always because of a lack-of-hope. We see no future and so we start to look at the spiral below us. Are we depressed because we see that there is no-hope, or do we feel that there is no-hope because of depression? Can it be either - can it be a combination? I'm no trickcyclist, so I don't know!
The major burden that men carry about with them is the inability to simply say - "I can't cope". Those of us who are seen as bullish and determined will carry the additional penalty that the world sees us as being strong and determined and focused and capable and all that old rubbish, and the simple fact is that sometimes, we fu****g well aren't.
Faith, Hope and Charity, and without Hope, we won't have it's bedfellows.

Can't agree enough with this post. I know it's really hard to try see life in a hopeful light, if you suffer with depression. I suffer with it and have done for 6 years or more, but I never got any treatments for it, because it's mild. If it is mild depression it's treatable, or can be somewhat, by dietry choices, also friendship or relationship choices. Family/friends can be a big factor especially in mental health. So many of my friends have depression/eating disorders because of bullying, toxic friends or family. They say you can cut off a friend but a family you have for life. Personally whether family or non family, if that person is having a serious impact on your health, and talking hasn't worked, then as hard as it may be you have to cut them out. Ik it may sound selfish but your own health is more important in this case. I have a family member who did me a lot of wrong and who, since this summer, I have completely cut them out of my life. Harsh as it sounds tho my mental health has improved and I no longer have to fear or dread seeing them, I was strong enough to say I don't want them in my life. Remember... Draw the line, if they won't listen after a few talks then cut them out, because you're better off without them there. Sorry for going on

waterbuffalofarmer · Jan 8, 2019

Dangerous Dan said:
I'm not so sure I agree with this. I personally have to look forward to the "next". Be it an event during the week, changes in work, big events like lambing, clipping, calves in or out or simply a date, a birthday, or just getting each milking out of the way till weekends are over. It's my coping mechanism, not always fool proof but generally works.

However, even with that, I get sideswiped. Last Tuesday was the classic. Helping a work friend with a listening ear, nothing new..... Suddenly got swiped by memories, anger, sadness etc etc. This wasn't a lack of hope or future. I'm. Trying to push forward to make a better future than the past that has obviously done the damage.

Not sure where I'm going with this......just wanted to throw a halfpenny worth in.

Keep posting we are all listening x
It's good that you're listening to others problems and helping them too. Sometimes the act of helping another can help yourself, it helps to give you a sense of purpose which is good

work can be a good coping mechanism and looking forward to new events is very good too. Remember looking forward is a way forward. Have you ever thought about keeping a diary? Writing down your thoughts each day, how you're feeling so you can look at them in a more studied light to make sense. It can help to collect your thoughts and look at each one separately so you can find a way of dealing with each one

Dangerous Dan · Jan 8, 2019

waterbuffalofarmer said:
Have you ever thought about keeping a diary? Writing down your thoughts each day, how you're feeling so you can look at them in a more studied light to make sense. It can help to collect your thoughts and look at each one separately so you can find a way of dealing with each one

I've thought about it a few times, but like I said earlier, I get bored easy and am pretty forgetful. Those two together aren't a great mix. Usually stuff like that lasts a week till I get bored or forget and then it's downhill from there.....

waterbuffalofarmer · Jan 8, 2019

Dangerous Dan said:
I've thought about it a few times, but like I said earlier, I get bored easy and am pretty forgetful. Those two together aren't a great mix. Usually stuff like that lasts a week till I get bored or forget and then it's downhill from there.....

well you don't have to write in it every day at all, just if you're feeling bad at the time. You could also use notes on your phone, paper whatever is to hand really

One thing I will say is that it can get addicting. You don't have to keep the notes either, you can throw them away or burn them or such, which can help to remove them from the mind. You say you get bored of stuff, maybe with each week try a different technique, so alternate things... So one week you write down and another week maybe record onto your phone or such, speaking them out and then listen to them at a later date or even delete them after. I'm not sure whether this would work? But I guess there are some things that could be worth a try even for temporary relief

cokey1955 · Jan 8, 2019

Chae1 said:
Strange, just reading it this morning. View attachment 754252

How you getting on with the book ?

holwellcourtfarm · Jan 8, 2019

cokey1955 said:
How you getting on with the book ?

Excellent book. I finished it today and now @Mrs Holwell is reading it. Even she is impressed with it's directness.

cokey1955 · Jan 8, 2019

holwellcourtfarm said:
Excellent book. I finished it today and now @Mrs Holwell is reading it. Even she is impressed with it's directness.

it's a coincidence i am New Zealand and my daughter bought it for Christmas for me she thought it was just about farming a very good read

Chae1 · Jan 8, 2019

cokey1955 said:
How you getting on with the book ?

Haven't got any further to be honest. I am enjoying it. I can relate to a lot he says. It explains a lot to me why I feel the way I do at times. Will help me look at situations differently.

He stayed with my father when him and Wendy were touring Scotland but I never met him.

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