Farming without subsidies

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
lower .............. but I sold out of the haulage company a few years ago (its a crap and stressful business to be in)

It's also lower than other businesses I'm involved in if your ROI is what you are looking at

however ag is not without other massive benefits , taxation mostly and lifestyle plus ist a safe place for capital and returns from capital investments and growth have been significant over the years

Easy to always assume the grass is greener.................. it's often not !
If corbyn gets into power, farmland may not be a safe place for capital any more.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Good history lesson there.
To bring it up to date, some of the descendants Scots who got land cheap are those who are now going under, through getting lazy and inflexible like those farmers that their hardworking forbears took over from. (also see another post on another thread by @Exfarmer quoting exactly that happening in the 1980's).
Dont insult the poor sods who went bust after the corn law repeal, they were locked into a stupid rigid system which slowly burst them.
They were not lazy or inflexible, in fact those who were fortuneate to escape with cash simply emigrated. The corn laws repeal didnt really hit the uk grain price till 1880
In scotland, if you signed a 19yr lease and the grain price collapsed in yr4, the landlord had the power to take everything you owned, then throw you out.
By 1890 many estates had evicted all the tenants and could not relet unless they accepted bids of less than half the previous figure. Then they started to feel the cold draught. Mansion houses were let out or demolished/ burnt.
An estate i know emptied out 14 farm tenants and installed a manager
Over a hundred workers were also cleared out.
It didnt last long, the lairds buggered off to india and let the big house out, and relet the land for a fraction of previous figure
 
Dont insult the poor sods who went bust after the corn law repeal, they were locked into a stupid rigid system which slowly burst them.
They were not lazy or inflexible, in fact those who were fortuneate to escape with cash simply emigrated. The corn laws repeal didnt really hit the uk grain price till 1880
In scotland, if you signed a 19yr lease and the grain price collapsed in yr4, the landlord had the power to take everything you owned, then throw you out.
By 1890 many estates had evicted all the tenants and could not relet unless they accepted bids of less than half the previous figure. Then they started to feel the cold draught. Mansion houses were let out or demolished/ burnt.
An estate i know emptied out 14 farm tenants and installed a manager
Over a hundred workers were also cleared out.
It didnt last long, the lairds buggered off to india and let the big house out, and relet the land for a fraction of previous figure

I wouldn't dare!
I'm insulting SOME of the farmers who might have got a bit complacent.
My own grand father survived fighting on the Somme in WW1, then rented a dairy farm, then in the 1930's the milk price crashed and with a growing family he had to get out then rebuild his career, starting as a cowman and building up to becoming an Estate Manager.
 

Cowcorn

Member
Mixed Farmer
What happened with the stall and tether ban was that all affected producers invested huge sums of money in new loose housing. The major supermarkets categorically stated that they would support them in this.
At the same time overproduction from UK herd expansion through a huge uplift in outdoor production (by people like me admittedly) led to the price crashing.
Now pig producers are well used to being in an unsupported, unsubsidised market, with its price swings and are used to taking it firmly on the chin.
However, the supermarkets, sniffing much cheaper pork abroad, bought imported and left the UK producers, with their investments and higher cost of production out to dry, despite their earlier promises.
The result was that the UK industry had to halve in size, and thats exactly what happened, through the misery of innocent farmers. There were a lot of bankruptcies and suicides.

I know because I was there, producing pigs, heavily borrowed, losing heaps of money and protesting outside parliament (where we kept a pig in Parliament Square), shutting down retailer distribution depots (regularly helping shut down a depot overnight then getting home at 6am and straight out to feed pigs) and marching on the streets.

I was lucky, I survived and prospered eventually, through sheer determination.

The imports continue, often disguised as phoney brands such as "Woodside Farm".

Be VERY careful what you wish for!
There speaks a man who has walked the walk. Put not your faith in slimy self intrested politicans like gove or trust in the charitable instincts of Supermarkets . The politicans only care for votes and farmers dont have critical mass to make an impact, the supermarkets only care about profit and are ruthless in screwing the producers. If it can be got cheaper abroad it will be got and fucck the local producer. Indeed i well remember the pig crisis from the pages of farners weekly and the hardship caused. Long time pig man and columinist David Richardson had to close his unit due to severe losses.
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
Dont insult the poor sods who went bust after the corn law repeal, they were locked into a stupid rigid system which slowly burst them.
They were not lazy or inflexible, in fact those who were fortuneate to escape with cash simply emigrated. The corn laws repeal didnt really hit the uk grain price till 1880
In scotland, if you signed a 19yr lease and the grain price collapsed in yr4, the landlord had the power to take everything you owned, then throw you out.
By 1890 many estates had evicted all the tenants and could not relet unless they accepted bids of less than half the previous figure. Then they started to feel the cold draught. Mansion houses were let out or demolished/ burnt.
An estate i know emptied out 14 farm tenants and installed a manager not a
Over a hundred workers were also cleared out.
It didnt last long, the lairds buggered off to india and let the big house out, and relet the land for a fraction of previous figure
The corn laws were in place to protect the aristocracy and the landed gentry, they kept the working classes in abject poverty whereby the lower socio economic classes couldn't afford bread to feed their families, if they were caught stealing bread they were then sent to the penal colonies, the Corn Laws did not allow grain to be imported from the Americas, which could have averted the Irish famine.
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
consumers choice (y):D

did you like it ?
Yes, still got it.
IMG_4411.JPG
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya

so - the logical conclusion to that is, you, as the consumer, were very happy to pay a considerable amount of money to buy an imported product which some may say falls below the generally accepted safety standards of your country ?

( yes, I know NZ doesn't have an auto industry, but we do & our locally produced cars all have ancap ratings of 4 or 5, but a lot of people here were also happy to buy the Mustang at a much lower rating )


I believe that it is possible to do private imports of vehicles into the UK, that don't actually meet the safety or emissions requirements of the day ?
 

turbo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
lincs
Following on from this then you’re saying nothing should have a standard it’s just price,I hear leaches are very good for most medical conditions and they are cheap!.Race to the bottom except for the few
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
The corn laws were in place to protect the aristocracy and the landed gentry, they kept the working classes in abject poverty whereby the lower socio economic classes couldn't afford bread to feed their families, if they were caught stealing bread they were then sent to the penal colonies, the Corn Laws did not allow grain to be imported from the Americas, which could have averted the Irish famine.
Absolutely
The corn laws were to protect private interests ie the landlords and the biggest lanflord of all, the king.
The poor could ho to hell or australia!
The french war put rents up by 5 fold and made landlords spectacularly wealthy.
Many tenants had signed 100 yr leases before the war and had invested in houses steadings , new fields etc
Peacetime brought lawyers letters to chuck them out so the owner could cash in
 
Thats exactly what i already wrote,that no doubt they will say they are jumping through hoops to get the extra money.And quite frankly if they are,i could not care less.In my opinion,they are destroying the industry;the race to the bottom!

I disagree, seems like a race to the top to me.

If folk don't like what comes with the requirement of a top-notch supermarket they need not apply to have one. Simple as that. I know several farmers who are on those contracts who do not find it that onerous to meet the added requirements and they are more than happy with their arrangement and have been for many years.
 
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SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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