Farming without subsidies

jendan

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northumberland
I disagree, seems like a race to the top to me.

If folk don't like what comes with the requirement of a top-notch supermarket they need not apply to have one. Simple as that. I know several farmers who are on those contracts who do not find it that onerous to meet the added requirements and they are more than happy with their arrangement and have been for many years.
As a proportion of total UK milk output,how much is produced for them?
 

jendan

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northumberland
I have no idea of the answer to that question, nor do I see the relevance, actually?
Of course its relevant! Its a small amount thats why.They would not pay it if it was right across the board would they? Thats why we had the bloody Milk Marketing Board! Fair do s for everyone,not just the chosen few!
 
Of course its relevant! Its a small amount thats why.They would not pay it if it was right across the board would they? Thats why we had the bloody Milk Marketing Board! Fair do s for everyone,not just the chosen few!

I don't know how much milk Waitrose sell, nor do I care, but if they want to pay people more money for that volume they do retail, and can make money themselves by doing so, that is fantastic in my book. It is not the responsibility of Waitrose or Tesco (or anyone else for that matter) to ensure the continued prosperity of every dairy farm in the UK. All other companies have to paddle their own canoe, t'was ever thus.
 

jendan

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northumberland
I don't know how much milk Waitrose sell, nor do I care, but if they want to pay people more money for that volume they do retail, and can make money themselves by doing so, that is fantastic in my book. It is not the responsibility of Waitrose or Tesco (or anyone else for that matter) to ensure the continued prosperity of every dairy farm in the UK. All other companies have to paddle their own canoe, t'was ever thus.
.........i was young and green once...........Regarding milk supply,"twas ever thus" before 1933 and after 1994.If the MMB was still in existance,every single milk producer in the country would be getting 35p-40p litre,and the f*cking supermarkets would have been forced to pay a fair price for all milk they bought,right across the board.We still have the highest consumption of liquid milk anywhere in the World.We should have the highest price,and would have were it not for the supermarkets selling it as a loss leader.
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife
.........i was young and green once...........Regarding milk supply,"twas ever thus" before 1933 and after 1994.If the MMB was still in existance,every single milk producer in the country would be getting 35p-40p litre,and the f*cking supermarkets would have been forced to pay a fair price for all milk they bought,right across the board.We still have the highest consumption of liquid milk anywhere in the World.We should have the highest price,and would have were it not for the supermarkets selling it as a loss leader.

Socialise the losses and capitalise the profits....

If every single milk producer was getting 35p per litre how many of them do you think would have a COP of 30p?

MMB sounds like protectionist rubbish to me.
 

Cowcorn

Member
Mixed Farmer
.........i was young and green once...........Regarding milk supply,"twas ever thus" before 1933 and after 1994.If the MMB was still in existance,every single milk producer in the country would be getting 35p-40p litre,and the f*cking supermarkets would have been forced to pay a fair price for all milk they bought,right across the board.We still have the highest consumption of liquid milk anywhere in the World.We should have the highest price,and would have were it not for the supermarkets selling it as a loss leader.
Liquid milk is been used by the Supermarkets as a loss leader over here too, needless to say we have the same supermarkets mostly. The price paid used to be set by the Dublin district milk board and was fair for producer and consumer. The rot set in whem the doorstep deliveries declined and the supermarkets gained thel lions share of the market. You cant really compare seasonal production with liquid production its a totally different game but unless a decent premuim is been paid its a lot of work for nothing. We have been involved in liquid milk since the 1930s but unless margins improve i think as im getting old i will be taking the scenic route to spring calving. I dont know the background to the supermarkets contracts in the UK but the seem to be working for the few but i find it hard to believe the supply all of the milk that the supermarkets sell, probably the cost is been balanced out by cheaper milk been bought elsewhere. Strong farmer owned co ops are the best route to fair milk prices, not pick and fix contracts with supermarkets.
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
.........i was young and green once...........Regarding milk supply,"twas ever thus" before 1933 and after 1994.If the MMB was still in existance,every single milk producer in the country would be getting 35p-40p litre,and the f*cking supermarkets would have been forced to pay a fair price for all milk they bought,right across the board.We still have the highest consumption of liquid milk anywhere in the World.We should have the highest price,and would have were it not for the supermarkets selling it as a loss leader.
Your memories of the MMB are different to mine, I remember the UK having one of the highest percentages of milk going into liquid, which was a high paying product, while our continental cousins were putting more of their milk into lower paying products, unfortunately this was not reflected in the price the farmer received, UK dairy farmers, even though they should have been receiving one of the highest milk prices in Europe were at the other end of the scale receiving one of the lowest.
I went to all the talks given by the MMB prior to the setting up of Milk Marque and after listening to the dinasours giving the presentations opted to go direct, the price increase post vesting day was huge, so much so that we didn't send any milk on 31st October 1994 sending twice as much to the dairy 1st November.
The MMB ran a pooling system for milk which I generally agree with, the way it was run was ridiculous, the CATFI system guarenteed a profit to the processing dairies, which by its very nature promoted inefficiencies, these inefficiencies were also clearly evident through the whole supply chain that the MMB ran.
You are dreaming if you believe that a present day MMB would see returns of 35-40ppl, how would or could they force supermarkets to pay more? The MMB couldn't obtain the highest price in Europe 25 years ago how would they do so now?
The system that is operating now doesn't seem to be much better with a dog eat dog environment. Producer co-ops would be the way to go, I have mentioned this several times, co ops just don't seem to work in the UK, despite the fact that they work in Europe and elsewhere, if every dairy farmer invested in a processing co op then the milk price would improve, the potential solution is in the hands of the farmer.
NZ generally gets discussed when subsidies are mentioned, due to the fact we don't have them, what we do have is a very good coordinated marketing strategy (see Lockwood Smiths presentation put up by Clive) the average NZ dairy farmer would have $500,000 invested in processing through their co ops, if the UK dairy farmer invested a similar amount in processing this would enable them to share in the profits from higher up the supply chain.
 
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stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
so - the logical conclusion to that is, you, as the consumer, were very happy to pay a considerable amount of money to buy an imported product which some may say falls below the generally accepted safety standards of your country ?

( yes, I know NZ doesn't have an auto industry, but we do & our locally produced cars all have ancap ratings of 4 or 5, but a lot of people here were also happy to buy the Mustang at a much lower rating )


I believe that it is possible to do private imports of vehicles into the UK, that don't actually meet the safety or emissions requirements of the day ?
It doesn't fall below the accepted safety standards but is at the lower end, having a 5 litre V8 under the bonnet doesn't help (Yes I have a small dick).
I have no problem with buying an imported product and country of origin does not worry me as long as it is up to the job, which is why my tractor and sprayer are Italian.
 
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stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
Following on from this then you’re saying nothing should have a standard it’s just price,I hear leaches are very good for most medical conditions and they are cheap!.Race to the bottom except for the few

It should have a standard to be sold or imported, some products just meet the standard some are at the higher end and meet more than the standard.
When buying something price is not the top consideration, first on the list is does it fit my requirements (no point in having cheap kit if it is not up to the job).

Interesting you mention leaches, I thought you were referring to the recipients of subsidy.
 

turbo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
lincs
It should have a standard to be sold or imported, some products just meet the standard some are at the higher end and meet more than the standard.
When buying something price is not the top consideration, first on the list is does it fit my requirements (no point in having cheap kit if it is not up to the job).

Interesting you mention leaches, I thought you were referring to the recipients of subsidy.
What raw Commodities can be imported to your country?
 

stewart

Member
Horticulture
Location
Bay of Plenty NZ
Ok I will re phase that,how much is imported and what standards does it have to reach,google is not very clear and it does seem you have restrictions in place.(not that I think it’s a bad idea if you do)
We import a high percentage of our manufactured goods machinery etc. and some beef and pork, very little if any raw milk, the shipping costs would be too high and we are a net exporter, some processed dairy products are imported, cheese etc.
The standards are high, as they should be.
 

turbo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
lincs
We import a high percentage of our manufactured goods machinery etc. and some beef and pork, very little if any raw milk, the shipping costs would be too high and we are a net exporter, some processed dairy products are imported, cheese etc.
The standards are high, as they should be.
Thanks for that.On the standards I agree but how does that fit with free trade after all milk is milk and wheat is wheat according to some on here
 
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