Self employed people - reality check please

Doing it for the kids · Jan 14, 2019

So a self employed builder who does some work for us is short of money so asked me if we could pay him for the hours worked so far in January. we pay him on an hourly basis for works done so it should be easy to work out.

looking at his hours sheet though, he has added on 15 minutes between arriving and leaving in one day alone which doesn't sound much, but it happens quite a lot. Further, whilst working here he wanted to ask my some personal questions and get my advice so asked if he could some and see me. we had a chat for probably 15 minutes in my office, I think I helped him a bit, then he carried on working. his house sheet did not reflect this either

in theory I am 30 minutes down on that day alone, I haven't checked other days on the cameras.

I know it's give and take and there has to be some trust along the way but this isn't the first time this has happened and when we talk about it he seems surprised to hear my point of view.

According to others we pay him a fair / above average rate. He lives 2 miles away so his fuel costs are not high.

Am I being completely unreasonable in letting him constantly round his hours up!? he does a good job and others like him are hard to find so I have put up with it but others in the family just think he is taking all the time, granted they are not really in the same mind set as me, I don't share their black and white view.

some may think I crack the whip but we have helped him out in numerous ways before, his personal life is a mess, he has had loans and other stuff off us in the past to help him along which he never seems grateful for.

I am just trying to gauge if I am being too kind / about right / too hard on him?!

TYIA

Nearly · Jan 14, 2019

Are you prepared to lose him?

Pay him this time but point out that you'll only pay him while he's working?

br jones · Jan 14, 2019

Hes taking the pish

Chae1 · Jan 14, 2019

Could you introduce something so he can clock in and out and for breaks each day?

We try and price jobs with builders before they do work, then they can stand about on the phone and drink tea as much as they want.

Doing it for the kids · Jan 14, 2019

Nearly said:
Are you prepared to lose him?

Pay him this time but point out that you'll only pay him while he's working?

Some days yes, others no!

Chae1 said:
Could you introduce something so he can clock in and out and for breaks each day?

We try and price jobs with builders before they do work, then they can stand about on the phone and drink tea as much as they want.

I have looked at an app for this but all the ones I could find where way to complex. I’ve posted before about that, want a gps app on phone which they control so when they arrive they log in with a snap shot location.and like wise for when they leave. Breaks are harder to check on but he said not one for sitting around for an hr so that part isn’t such a concern.

Dragon · Jan 14, 2019

are you happy with his work?
Does complete enough in the day? for the money paid?
Is he a fast worker?

davidroberts30 · Jan 14, 2019

If your happy with the work and don't want to loose him,chill out
Its cost you what,say 8 quid for the half hour

Maybe ask him to fill a time sheet out

Sharpy · Jan 14, 2019

Is he charging his travel and travel time perhaps?

Goweresque · Jan 14, 2019

Its a bug bear of mine too, but you have to swallow hard and look at the bigger picture - if his work good? Is the overall cost of the projects within the budgets you set for them? If so then just do a Lord Nelson and pay the bills as they come in, the alternative could be far worse - decent builders are like gold dust, one that merely adds 15-30 mins labour on per day would seem like an angel compared to some of the rogues you could end up employing, if he walks off the job. Or you crack the whip and he stays, but he's p*ssed off and while his hours now add up he diddles you even more in ways you can't see.............

Bruce Almighty · Jan 14, 2019

Has this been a problem for a while ?

I remember you mentioning something like this in the Autumn with staff
If you add up the 1/4 hrs, how much is it costing you ?
Perhaps there's a monthly amount you can accept ?

Do you think he appreciates / respects you - or does he think "it's alright for you 'cause you can afford it"

Perhaps it's a small price to pay if you are happy with the work he's doing

I know what it's like to feel hard done by, we've helped out a local fitter a lot, he's gone into business with someone & they're now charging us £45/hr in our own workshop, what used to seem fair bills now seem a bit dear

livestock 1 · Jan 14, 2019

Builders tak some keeping track of price wise in my experience. The problem is that they often tend to work for people who have no idea what a job should cost so the sky can be the limit. I always just price for the job then as said above it’s their own time they are wasting. If you are getting a good job done and would struggle to replace him I would keep him but remind him you know. If not say goodbye unless he’s started a job that someone else won’t finish

Grouse · Jan 14, 2019

15 minutes, is he rounding up to the nearest 1/4 hr. some charge in 0.25 hr increments - personally I would probably let it go - but make a joke of it at a light hearted time as a warning shot - keep your powder dry - it could be far far worse

David. · Jan 14, 2019

[/QUOTE] I know what it's like to feel hard done by, we've helped out a local fitter a lot, he's gone into business with someone & they're now charging us £45/hr in our own workshop, what used to seem fair bills now seem a bit dear[/QUOTE]

That would smart, and I'd be having a rent review and revision of terms.
To the OP though, it displays a lack of respect on his part. Quite why business owners are expected to overlook people taking the pee is beyond me, nobody is so good that you can overlook dishonesty.

Clive · Jan 14, 2019

Working to a clock is flawed

Where do you draw the line ? Start timing people going for a pee and deducting it ?

As long as overall pay reflects the job someone is doing then there is no problem - watching clocks only leads to bad feeling all round

renewablejohn · Jan 14, 2019

Just thank your lucky stars your not employing me.

David. · Jan 15, 2019

But if you are billing time, you are working to a clock, by your own choice. You should be fastidious about doing it right.
I also favour having people you can trust and leaving them to it, but that is not OPs circumstance if he has a tradesman overbilling his time.... and always in his favour.

Still Farming · Jan 15, 2019

Some just take P
A few hours here and there,few spuds, veg,use truck trailer, tractor etc .always on "up train " some why should we put up with it ?

davidroberts30 · Jan 15, 2019

Still Farming said:
Some just take P
A few hours here and there,few spuds, veg,use truck trailer, tractor etc .always on "up train " some why should we put up with it ?

because the sad fact of matter is if you dont put up with a little you wont get a worker
tbh i would be happy that he is only rounding up to the quarter hour, could be to the half hour!

renewablejohn · Jan 15, 2019

Local professional came upto me on my digger and asked whether I could do some work. I said how much are you prepared to pay. He offered 25 per hour he was not impressed when I suggested that actually paid for 3 minutes. Then asked how much he charged per hour and it worked out at the rate he suggested I could have 6 minutes of his time. Rather ironic as if he had come and asked as a neighbor I would probably have done it FOC as I am that sort of person.

David. · Jan 15, 2019

Still Farming said:
Some just take P
A few hours here and there,few spuds, veg,use truck trailer, tractor etc .always on "up train " some why should we put up with it ?

Nobody minds those little things as long as it is appreciated and there is BOTH give and take.
OP is referring to all take, it is effectively theft to massage your booked hours.

Self employed people - reality check please

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