Cover crop destruction

T Hectares

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Berkshire
Got a few inlamb ewes, thought they didn’t like phacelia (which is the majority of the CC’s.) Didn’t want to put the lambs at risk.
I was concerned about the Phacelia, but this lot are tucking into it well, they arent in lamb though, what do you think the risk is??
IMAG2972.jpg
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Really good cover crops here for once, a mixture of vetch, oats, phacelia, radish, rape, volunteer cereals and weeds. In April, I will be direct drilling (disc drill) spring cereals into them. What should I be doing to the CC’s? I’m thinking of flailing them fairly soon then post drilling glyphosate?

Or, could I leave them and drill spring Barley or Oats straight into the cover crop, followed by glyphosate.

It seems a shame to destroy them now and leave the ground semi bare for 3 months, when they are doing so much good.

In the past I’ve always left the CC’s growing to the last minute, sprayed glyphosate then drilled a few days later, but then the CC’s were never very thick.

TIA


do as you have done in the past but just spray AFTER drilling not before so the rolling action of the drill lets spray get into the bottom of the thick cover
 

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
He wouldsay that wouldnt he, If your on heavy soil then you dont want cover in a wet time, the land will stay wet and cold, Simon cowell from essex and who knows more than almost anyone from the uk on dd is on very heavy clay and doesnt rate CC,he uses a simtech as we do and it appears from the photo you do, they will drill through quite heavy residue as long as its not too wet.
Ignore some of the newly converted folk who farm boys land and for whom CC may work

Cover crops on boys land compared to heavy land is like comparing a mf35 with a 2018 tractor

Not sure I agree with that, as someone who has grown cover crops for 8 years on everything from rank sand to brick clay (there's a kiln on the farm, 'nuff said!)
A common mix here is 50kg Oats, 2kg mustard and 3kg radish per hectare - sometimes we add 50kg of beans on one farm without beans in the rotation, where infertility and lack of OM is a problem.

The key things I've learned re covers are:

Dont get them too thick - let the weeds grow in the cover crop, not the one that you take to harvest. Allow the sun and wind to dry the soil or establishment of the next crop will be compromised
Mix deep and shallow rooting species
Drill into them with as little disturbance as possible to minimise weed growth
Be patient
Keep it cheap
Less = more as far as cultivation is concerned, but remove significant compaction where necessary pre sowing the cover, not the harvested crop.
Make them fit the situation, not the situation fit the cover - ie the harvested crop is still the most important one
When following winter barley, a stale seedbed and tidyup of volunteers pre sowing cover late August is worthwhile.

A few examples - dd cover after wheat on heavy land before direct drilling spring oats straight into the standing cover has worked very well indeed as far as weed control, margin and soil health are concerned
- dd cover pre potatoes, flailed off (mostly to allow the OM to fall through the destoner into the bed), cultivated about 8" deep into the stubble pre ploughing and ridging has reduced bedtilling significantly, retained friable rows which crack, slump and cap much less, reducing greens and increasing saleable yields, and easier harvesting.
- made soils more workable on farms that havent seen muck in 30yrs

A few observations of cover crops elsewhere:

One size does not fit all
Is there really a need for 10 different species in a mix? Adds more cost than value to me
Really thick cover crops create more problems than they solve

Things we need to learn yet (theres lots more than this!) -

Wether sheep grazing can be a valuable part of the process
Destruction - is more soil energy expended breaking down a green cover, or a burnt off one? Does flailing help in this regard?
Can I get more value from my covers with a different species of radish to reduce nematodes without breaking the bank?
Is Phacelia an alternative to say mustard in the current mix of Oats, radish and mustard?
Are Linseed, Vetch and Berseem clover (tried all 3 over the years) really doing much good, when they visibly seem to do very little?
 

rob1

Member
Location
wiltshire
Not sure I agree with that, as someone who has grown cover crops for 8 years on everything from rank sand to brick clay (there's a kiln on the farm, 'nuff said!)
A common mix here is 50kg Oats, 2kg mustard and 3kg radish per hectare - sometimes we add 50kg of beans on one farm without beans in the rotation, where infertility and lack of OM is a problem.

The key things I've learned re covers are:

Dont get them too thick - let the weeds grow in the cover crop, not the one that you take to harvest. Allow the sun and wind to dry the soil or establishment of the next crop will be compromised
Mix deep and shallow rooting species
Drill into them with as little disturbance as possible to minimise weed growth
Be patient
Keep it cheap
Less = more as far as cultivation is concerned, but remove significant compaction where necessary pre sowing the cover, not the harvested crop.
Make them fit the situation, not the situation fit the cover - ie the harvested crop is still the most important one
When following winter barley, a stale seedbed and tidyup of volunteers pre sowing cover late August is worthwhile.

A few examples - dd cover after wheat on heavy land before direct drilling spring oats straight into the standing cover has worked very well indeed as far as weed control, margin and soil health are concerned
- dd cover pre potatoes, flailed off (mostly to allow the OM to fall through the destoner into the bed), cultivated about 8" deep into the stubble pre ploughing and ridging has reduced bedtilling significantly, retained friable rows which crack, slump and cap much less, reducing greens and increasing saleable yields, and easier harvesting.
- made soils more workable on farms that havent seen muck in 30yrs

A few observations of cover crops elsewhere:

One size does not fit all
Is there really a need for 10 different species in a mix? Adds more cost than value to me
Really thick cover crops create more problems than they solve

Things we need to learn yet (theres lots more than this!) -

Wether sheep grazing can be a valuable part of the process
Destruction - is more soil energy expended breaking down a green cover, or a burnt off one? Does flailing help in this regard?
Can I get more value from my covers with a different species of radish to reduce nematodes without breaking the bank?
Is Phacelia an alternative to say mustard in the current mix of Oats, radish and mustard?
Are Linseed, Vetch and Berseem clover (tried all 3 over the years) really doing much good, when they visibly seem to do very little?

If it works for you I certainly wouldnt knock it, but we found it didnt help much, have a decent natural cover on our stubbles this year so perhaps will have a bit of a trial again
 
Not sure I agree with that, as someone who has grown cover crops for 8 years on everything from rank sand to brick clay (there's a kiln on the farm, 'nuff said!)
A common mix here is 50kg Oats, 2kg mustard and 3kg radish per hectare - sometimes we add 50kg of beans on one farm without beans in the rotation, where infertility and lack of OM is a problem.

The key things I've learned re covers are:

Dont get them too thick - let the weeds grow in the cover crop, not the one that you take to harvest. Allow the sun and wind to dry the soil or establishment of the next crop will be compromised
Mix deep and shallow rooting species
Drill into them with as little disturbance as possible to minimise weed growth
Be patient
Keep it cheap
Less = more as far as cultivation is concerned, but remove significant compaction where necessary pre sowing the cover, not the harvested crop.
Make them fit the situation, not the situation fit the cover - ie the harvested crop is still the most important one
When following winter barley, a stale seedbed and tidyup of volunteers pre sowing cover late August is worthwhile.

A few examples - dd cover after wheat on heavy land before direct drilling spring oats straight into the standing cover has worked very well indeed as far as weed control, margin and soil health are concerned
- dd cover pre potatoes, flailed off (mostly to allow the OM to fall through the destoner into the bed), cultivated about 8" deep into the stubble pre ploughing and ridging has reduced bedtilling significantly, retained friable rows which crack, slump and cap much less, reducing greens and increasing saleable yields, and easier harvesting.
- made soils more workable on farms that havent seen muck in 30yrs

A few observations of cover crops elsewhere:

One size does not fit all
Is there really a need for 10 different species in a mix? Adds more cost than value to me
Really thick cover crops create more problems than they solve

Things we need to learn yet (theres lots more than this!) -

Wether sheep grazing can be a valuable part of the process
Destruction - is more soil energy expended breaking down a green cover, or a burnt off one? Does flailing help in this regard?
Can I get more value from my covers with a different species of radish to reduce nematodes without breaking the bank?
Is Phacelia an alternative to say mustard in the current mix of Oats, radish and mustard?
Are Linseed, Vetch and Berseem clover (tried all 3 over the years) really doing much good, when they visibly seem to do very little?
In your last paraghraph .spud . We thought that ,till you put spade in and dig down , oil raddish in a wet hole from last year ,and some late drilled mustard and tillage raddish , was only about 5/6 inch high ,but it had put some good roots down , will get some pics of different field ,when plough one for beet ,and direct drilling some spring barley into other one
 

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
In your last paraghraph .spud . We thought that ,till you put spade in and dig down , oil raddish in a wet hole from last year ,and some late drilled mustard and tillage raddish , was only about 5/6 inch high ,but it had put some good roots down , will get some pics of different field ,when plough one for beet ,and direct drilling some spring barley into other one

It'd be interesting to see the pics. When I said visibly, I was referring to under ground, as well as on the surface.
 

britt

Member
BASE UK Member
The more plant matter that you can grow the better.
However, too much to handle at destruction is the problem.
If you have access to sheep to convert the cover to fertiliser, grow it thick.
If you are on heavy land and no sheep are available, use a low seed rate with some species that will be killed by frost so that it is thin by spring to allow the air and sun to get at the soil.
As said above, there is no one size fits all and you must tailor the cover to each situation and consider all of the different aspects.
 
The more plant matter that you can grow the better.
However, too much to handle at destruction is the problem.
If you have access to sheep to convert the cover to fertiliser, grow it thick.
If you are on heavy land and no sheep are available, use a low seed rate with some species that will be killed by frost so that it is thin by spring to allow the air and sun to get at the soil.
As said above, there is no one size fits all and you must tailor the cover to each situation and consider all of the different aspects.
If you graze with sheep ,how much nutrient ,are taking away with them ,on their backs is it not better to flail it off and plough it in ,have grown mustard kale rape mix to plough in ,in front of sugar beet , and some different raddish , one been for bcn ,
 

britt

Member
BASE UK Member
If you are going to plough anyway, destruction is not an issue.:scratchhead:
Ploughing will also destroy much of the benefit of a cover crop.
Manure from the sheep will be far more beneficial to the crop than green crop residue.
 

Michael S

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Matching Green
What are peoples thoughts about topping either at the time of drilling or earlier either with or without spraying off? - In the absence of grazing, just to be clear.
 

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