My Bridgeway Biostimulant trial

fudge · Apr 15, 2019

jonnyjon said:
I'm not dodging the question, just not able to explain what I'm mean. A grazing animal brings far more to the ecosystem than we understand so imv a cow cannot be judged on it's food conversion abilities, it is way more complex than that, many people, who know far more than I ever will, say that they are simply vital to the health of the ecosystem. I have no doubt that the widespread removal and/ or mismanagement of grazing animals from our land is playing a huge part in the problems that we are facing with pests, disease, climate challenges etc. Fencing, lack of roi , lack of stock man skills etc etc are real challenges but that doesn't change the fact that these animals are vital so they can't be judged on their food conversion efficiency, a fish might be better but it can't graze grass so can't bring the soil health benefits that and ruminant brings

Clive’s trial will be interesting. My prejudice is that bio stimulants cannot take the pressure off arable land and allow it to “recover” in the same way multi annual leys do in mixed farming situations, or even replicate that effect in any way. Let’s see.

Clive · Apr 15, 2019

SilliamWhale said:
What difference are you expecting to see using a Brix refractometer? You going to measure the sugars in a Wheat plant? Do we need sweet tasting wheat leaves in May?

its supposed to be a measure of plant health ? if so and if this stuff does anything you would expect to see a difference

its certainly the case that after fungicide or herbicide applications we see brix fall showing that such products have a negative as well as positive (plant protection) effect

regardless of what the result means if there was no difference yo could argue the product was nit doing anything maybe ?

SilliamWhale · Apr 15, 2019

Clive said:
its supposed to be a measure of plant health ? if so and if this stuff does anything you would expect to see a difference

its certainly the case that after fungicide or herbicide applications we see brix fall showing that such products have a negative as well as positive (plant protection) effect

regardless of what the result means if there was no difference yo could argue the product was nit doing anything maybe ?

It pretty much measures sucrose and water.

Clive · Apr 15, 2019

SilliamWhale said:
It pretty much measures sucrose and water.

and does that relate to health ? ie what food the plant has stored / it ability to access those things ?

SilliamWhale · Apr 15, 2019

Clive said:
and does that relate to health ? ie what food the plant has stored / it ability to access those things ?

Not really. I mean you can mix sugar and water in a jug and do a brix test and have a very high reading but its not particularly healthy.

Dont really understand the idea of what food the plant has stored.

It doesnt make a difference to photosynthesis

Clive · Apr 15, 2019

SilliamWhale said:
Not really. I mean you can mix sugar and water in a jug and do a brix test and have a very high reading but its not particularly healthy.

Dont really understand the idea of what food the plant has stored.

It doesnt make a difference to photosynthesis

if you depend upon it for food surely a glass of sugar and water is healthy - carbohydrates are food and a plants store of them surely determines how big a meal it has in front of it ?

I' certainly no expert but lots of farmers seem to use Brix as measure of plant health - are they wrong ? is this test a waste of time ?

I've certainly always found it interesting how values change after fungicide and herbicide applications but does it mean nothing that they do ?

SilliamWhale · Apr 15, 2019

Clive said:
if you depend upon it for food surely a glass of sugar and water is healthy - carbohydrates are food and a plants store of them surely determines how big a meal it has in front of it ?

I' certainly no expert but lots of farmers seem to use Brix as measure of plant health - are they wrong ? is this test a waste of time ?

I've certainly always found it interesting how values change after fungicide and herbicide applications but does it mean nothing that they do ?

Yes I think its a waste of time to be honest. Handy for grape growers and some veg I guess

Clive · Apr 15, 2019

SilliamWhale said:
Yes I think its a waste of time to be honest. Handy for grape growers and some veg I guess

what do you put the value changes after fungicide / herbicide application down to then and do you think the change is irrelevant to the plant ?

jonnyjon · Apr 15, 2019

Some very clever people say that a plant with a high brix reading will not get disease or be attacked by so called pests

SilliamWhale · Apr 15, 2019

jonnyjon said:
Some very clever people say that a plant with a high brix reading will not get disease or be attacked by so called pests

Who are they then? Can you show me a link on web

SilliamWhale · Apr 15, 2019

Clive said:
what do you put the value changes after fungicide / herbicide application down to then and do you think the change is irrelevant to the plant ?

Ive not seen your data so I couldnt say. I wouldnt be suprised if grassweed herbicides did have an effect as we know they have a visual affect on plants but whether that means anything in the end....

jonnyjon · Apr 15, 2019

SilliamWhale said:
Who are they then? Can you show me a link on web

John kempf @ aea would be a good place to start, you will need plenty of time

jonnyjon · Apr 15, 2019

An application of fungicide will reduce yield in the absence of disease, makes sense if the brix drops after the application

SilliamWhale · Apr 15, 2019

jonnyjon said:
John kempf @ aea would be a good place to start, you will need plenty of time

How do you know he's very clever? I can't ascertain his scientific qualifications beyond that he is an agronomist, farmer and fert salesman. I don't see much independent info on his website.

His website appears to sell the familiar wide range of products with varying amounts of minerals in deriving from things like liquid nutrients (foliar K, N etc.) as well as some fish and seaweed extracts and humic acid. The other newish thing is Chelated fertiliser which does have a potential if you have v high ph or your soil is seriously lacking in nutrients and OM - but hells bells you wouldn't want to be putting on a piddle of liquid if you soil is that lacking.

Humic and fulvic acid are quite interesting in themselves and I suspect a lot of these liquid ferts/ biostimulants are based on humic and fulvic but given there is no obligation to say whats on the label beyond the nutrient value.

Clive · Apr 15, 2019

SilliamWhale said:
Humic and fulvic acid are quite interesting in themselves and I suspect a lot of these liquid ferts/ biostimulants are based on humic and fulvic but given there is no obligation to say whats on the label beyond the nutrient value.

I think you might be right there

jonnyjon · Apr 15, 2019

SilliamWhale said:
How do you know he's very clever? I can't ascertain his scientific qualifications beyond that he is an agronomist, farmer and fert salesman. I don't see much independent info on his website.

His website appears to sell the familiar wide range of products with varying amounts of minerals in deriving from things like liquid nutrients (foliar K, N etc.) as well as some fish and seaweed extracts and humic acid. The other newish thing is Chelated fertiliser which does have a potential if you have v high ph or your soil is seriously lacking in nutrients and OM - but hells bells you wouldn't want to be putting on a piddle of liquid if you soil is that lacking.

Humic and fulvic acid are quite interesting in themselves and I suspect a lot of these liquid ferts/ biostimulants are based on humic and fulvic but given there is no obligation to say whats on the label beyond the nutrient value.

We all have the right to believe what we want, yes he sells stuff, most do or have a vested interest. He also says that a healthy soil with thriving biology needs no inputs so if he was only interested in taking your money i suspect he would keep that part to himself. A lot of what he says I've already proved to be correct so am i going to believe someone like him or some crowd like Bayer...

ajd132 · Apr 15, 2019

Chae1 said:
When are we going to have a ad plant that runs off of slurry and fym?

Thats what makes sense in my opinion getting use of energy twice/three times really. Cow, ad plant, then returning organic matter and digestate to land.

Can't be efficient enough as doesn't seem to have been done.

I have a friend who runs 1000 cow dairy and big arable enterprise and all the dairy stuff gets put into a digester.

Chae1 · Apr 15, 2019

Pebd99 said:
There’s a thread on here with the exact ad plant running off slurry.

Could you post a link to it?

InteragroStuart · Apr 15, 2019

Clive said:
Thanks for getting the thread back on topic ................. its has rather drifted (several times and directions !)

I have a question - how long after application would you suggest I compares Brix or had tissue test done ? ie how long before you would expect to see a difference (if any) ?

Hi Clive, I would suggest trying a measurement around 10 - 14 days after application. In one set of results we were seeing improvements of up to nearly 40%. There is some information online around the benefits of having higher Brix readings, for example plants with higher brix are less prone to frost damage. Bridgeway helps improve the uptake of metal ions, especially calcium, which strengthens the vascular system, allowing more efficient uptake of water and minerals. The more water and minerals are assimilated by the plant, the higher the brix.

Oat · Apr 15, 2019

InteragroStuart said:
Hi Clive, I would suggest trying a measurement around 10 - 14 days after application. In one set of results we were seeing improvements of up to nearly 40%. There is some information online around the benefits of having higher Brix readings, for example plants with higher brix are less prone to frost damage. Bridgeway helps improve the uptake of metal ions, especially calcium, which strengthens the vascular system, allowing more efficient uptake of water and minerals. The more water and minerals are assimilated by the plant, the higher the brix.

There can be a fine line with nutrition and toxicity, is there a risk therefore that plants may take up too much metal ions?

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