Starter motor just clicks.

MackTheKnife · May 13, 2019

Our MF 2680 has a lucas M127 12v starter motor. Most times when starting there is no problem but randomly when key is turned we just get click from solenoid. Sometimes by keep clicking the key it sometimes starts( or have to resort to screwdriver across Bat + to spade term) which then it goes 100%.I have un-soldered the solenoid, ground the faces of the B+ and Motor terminals inside and reground the connecting plate including pressing out new dimples in the switching plate. I did all this and it made no difference to before l started this. Motor has been apart and been cleaned and checked. I subsequently found out that l can buy a new solenoid but is this really the problem as l would really like to know what is not working inside? Please help.

bobk · May 13, 2019

MackTheKnife said:
Our MF 2680 has a lucas M127 12v starter motor. Most times when starting there is no problem but randomly when key is turned we just get click from solenoid. Sometimes by keep clicking the key it sometimes starts( or have to resort to screwdriver across Bat + to spade term) which then it goes 100%.I have un-soldered the solenoid, ground the faces of the B+ and Motor terminals inside and reground the connecting plate including pressing out new dimples in the switching plate. I did all this and it made no difference to before l started this. Motor has been apart and been cleaned and checked. I subsequently found out that l can buy a new solenoid but is this really the problem as l would really like to know what is not working inside? Please help.

Chuck it in the bin and get a decent starter .

spin cycle · May 13, 2019

crack on as you are...anti theft device

ACEngineering · May 13, 2019

MackTheKnife said:
Our MF 2680 has a lucas M127 12v starter motor. Most times when starting there is no problem but randomly when key is turned we just get click from solenoid. Sometimes by keep clicking the key it sometimes starts( or have to resort to screwdriver across Bat + to spade term) which then it goes 100%.I have un-soldered the solenoid, ground the faces of the B+ and Motor terminals inside and reground the connecting plate including pressing out new dimples in the switching plate. I did all this and it made no difference to before l started this. Motor has been apart and been cleaned and checked. I subsequently found out that l can buy a new solenoid but is this really the problem as l would really like to know what is not working inside? Please help.

bobk said:
Chuck it in the bin and get a decent starter .

What he said, they were poor starter motors when new, and all the new versions/copies are 10 times worse.

Happy to supply you a good starter for it if you want but I advise you not to waste any time or money messing about with the one you have or new lucas versions or copies.

Farmer_Joe · May 13, 2019

them old lucas starters are shite i had a few on an old international, but if you have cleaned solenoid with no joy try replace that

Still Farming · May 13, 2019

Iskra

marshbarn · May 13, 2019

MackTheKnife said:
Our MF 2680 has a lucas M127 12v starter motor. Most times when starting there is no problem but randomly when key is turned we just get click from solenoid. Sometimes by keep clicking the key it sometimes starts( or have to resort to screwdriver across Bat + to spade term) which then it goes 100%.I have un-soldered the solenoid, ground the faces of the B+ and Motor terminals inside and reground the connecting plate including pressing out new dimples in the switching plate. I did all this and it made no difference to before l started this. Motor has been apart and been cleaned and checked. I subsequently found out that l can buy a new solenoid but is this really the problem as l would really like to know what is not working inside? Please help.

Have you got a nutrual gear switch or clutch switch playing up and not allowing a good feed to the starter
Just to add that these exact symptoms happened to us with Bateman sprayer and it was the nutrual start switch

Still Farming · May 13, 2019

Flat battery

DrWazzock · May 13, 2019

MackTheKnife said:
Our MF 2680 has a lucas M127 12v starter motor. Most times when starting there is no problem but randomly when key is turned we just get click from solenoid. Sometimes by keep clicking the key it sometimes starts( or have to resort to screwdriver across Bat + to spade term) which then it goes 100%.I have un-soldered the solenoid, ground the faces of the B+ and Motor terminals inside and reground the connecting plate including pressing out new dimples in the switching plate. I did all this and it made no difference to before l started this. Motor has been apart and been cleaned and checked. I subsequently found out that l can buy a new solenoid but is this really the problem as l would really like to know what is not working inside? Please help.

It could be that the solenoid "piston" has made a slight step inside the cylinder from years of sitting there with vibration of engine. Sometimes you can feel the step in the cylinder after you have pulled the piston out. We had this problem on MF565 and 165. I ran a large round file back and forth over the step to smooth it down and it helped quite a bit, I think.

tinman · May 13, 2019

before you take the starter off and bin it just check have you got 12v at the little wire that excites the solenoid, that's the small one between the two big ones on the solenoid itself, it will be a single wire on either a spade or fixed with a screw.
its the one that sends 12v from the key switch, don't just check it with a multi meter as that will give only some indication that it works under no load, you need to load it with the likes of a bulb with a wire off the bulb to an earth, see if the bulb lights every time you turn the key, if it dosent then there is a problem on that line, either on a safety switch as mentioned or in the key switch or somewhere along the line of it, usual suspect can be a joint between the wire where it comes out of the bulkhead (outside the cab) and the starter solenoid.
if the bulb lights every time without fail when the key is turned then im afraid your starter is at fault,
if you have to buy a starter get yourself a "geared " one as they are known as, they arent geared per say, they just turn faster but make a massive difference when starting an engine.

MF-ANDY · May 13, 2019

You have a voltage drop in the wire from the key, through the clutch switch and on to the spade terminal. Fit a 4 pin relay near the starter to boost the voltage up again. A wiring diagram will be on the relay

davieh3350 · May 14, 2019

A broken or loose wire between the key and starter?

Had a landy with a connection in the wire to the starter. it would get warm and loose contact and fail to start.
First time I had it happen was at Lancaster services at 2am. pee'd about for ages and it finally went (cooled enough) so I decided just to leave it running. Got to brackley and got my milling machine loaded and headed for home. Got to Manchester and the M6 was start/stop for miles, though to myself I'd better not stall it

only for my clutch pedal to sink to the floor without doing anything a few minutes later

Had to stand on the brakes and stall it to stop myself going into the back of a lorry.

Sharpy · May 14, 2019

davieh3350 said:
A broken or loose wire between the key and starter?

Had a landy with a connection in the wire to the starter. it would get warm and loose contact and fail to start.
First time I had it happen was at Lancaster services at 2am. pee'd about for ages and it finally went (cooled enough) so I decided just to leave it running. Got to brackley and got my milling machine loaded and headed for home. Got to Manchester and the M6 was start/stop for miles, though to myself I'd better not stall it only for my clutch pedal to sink to the floor without doing anything a few minutes later
Had to stand on the brakes and stall it to stop myself going into the back of a lorry.

A standard landy day out then?

ACEngineering · May 14, 2019

tinman said:
before you take the starter off and bin it just check have you got 12v at the little wire that excites the solenoid, that's the small one between the two big ones on the solenoid itself, it will be a single wire on either a spade or fixed with a screw.
its the one that sends 12v from the key switch, don't just check it with a multi meter as that will give only some indication that it works under no load, you need to load it with the likes of a bulb with a wire off the bulb to an earth, see if the bulb lights every time you turn the key, if it dosent then there is a problem on that line, either on a safety switch as mentioned or in the key switch or somewhere along the line of it, usual suspect can be a joint between the wire where it comes out of the bulkhead (outside the cab) and the starter solenoid.
if the bulb lights every time without fail when the key is turned then im afraid your starter is at fault,
if you have to buy a starter get yourself a "geared " one as they are known as, they arent geared per say, they just turn faster but make a massive difference when starting an engine.

They are gear reduction. So smaller faster spinning motor through a set of planet gears to give more torque. Generally overall unit is smaller than a traditional Lucas type.

Also be warned there are Indian lucas copies of the Iskra flooding the market too now most of the time these are hardly any cheaper to buy and many people will buy them expecting a genuine iskra/mahle only to find it's not.

BEPCO are the main culprits for bring in the Indian lucas copies of the iskra. They still sell both genuine iskra and copies but on most genuine ones they are not competitive on price with other sellers, prefuring to favour the copies rather than quality.

tinman · May 15, 2019

ACEngineering said:
They are gear reduction. So smaller faster spinning motor through a set of planet gears to give more torque. Generally overall unit is smaller than a traditional Lucas type.

Also be warned there are Indian lucas copies of the Iskra flooding the market too now most of the time these are hardly any cheaper to buy and many people will buy them expecting a genuine iskra/mahle only to find it's not.

BEPCO are the main culprits for bring in the Indian lucas copies of the iskra. They still sell both genuine iskra and copies but on most genuine ones they are not competitive on price with other sellers, prefuring to favour the copies rather than quality.

i never stripped one to see what the guts are like tbh, i do bring any starters or alternators to a auto electric lad i use who isnt the cheapest but dose good work.
iirc he said to me that they arent geared but are just a smaller armature that turns faster but id say you have been in one so ill accept what you say.

he was saying the iskra copies arent the worst as he's repaired some of them but as we both know the genuine unit is better, the cheap item can be dearer most times.
id rather have them crying about the price of something going out the gate than cumming back crying about the item and the job a few months later.
he keeps bosch or genuine iskra on the shelf.
lucas is just a name now sold off to the highest bidder in india.

ACEngineering · May 15, 2019

tinman said:
i never stripped one to see what the guts are like tbh, i do bring any starters or alternators to a auto electric lad i use who isnt the cheapest but dose good work.
iirc he said to me that they arent geared but are just a smaller armature that turns faster but id say you have been in one so ill accept what you say.

he was saying the iskra copies arent the worst as he's repaired some of them but as we both know the genuine unit is better, the cheap item can be dearer most times.
id rather have them crying about the price of something going out the gate than cumming back crying about the item and the job a few months later.
he keeps bosch or genuine iskra on the shelf.
lucas is just a name now sold off to the highest bidder in india.

Not been in a iskra myself but seen the parts drawings somewhere and you can see the gears.

Here's my cheap starter motor stock, and yes i know thats an iskra on the top

even the best go wrong at some point

organicguy · May 15, 2019

ACEngineering said:
Not been in a iskra myself but seen the parts drawings somewhere and you can see the gears.

Here's my cheap starter motor stock, and yes i know thats an iskra on the top even the best go wrong at some point

Should be in conservation thread!

Qman · May 15, 2019

How can you tell a fake Iskra from a genuine one?

ACEngineering · May 15, 2019

Qman said:
How can you tell a fake Iskra from a genuine one?

With difficulty! Other than iskra/mahle will have a sticker on it with the part number and will say Mahle. visually they look much the same!

Robbed these pics from QTP! left one is genuine mahle (sticker will be on the other side) Right one is the copy, only real difference visually is the screws are painted on a genuine!

Hereward · May 15, 2019

Qman said:
How can you tell a fake Iskra from a genuine one?

The price.

Starter motor just clicks.

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