Failed Concrete what to do?

dannewhouse · Jun 11, 2019

we laid a concrete pad last Friday 9am and 11am tips (8 + 5cube so not much at all)

at 4 am the next morning we abandoned trying to power float it as it would not go off. (my alarm went of at 3am so I was late for work milking!!!) its a c40 concrete but has plasticizer in which power float mixes don't normally?

what is surface grinding like to try and get a polished finish?

what do you think the concrete company should be doing about it they are saying the concrete is fine and will gain adequate strength. but we are not happy with the finish.

we have 2 things who should pay for the 12 hours we spent extra on the pad more than we should have? (the concrete came with a verbal warning that it might start to go after 2 hours)
and who should pay for the surface grinding which would not have been required?
(cost would be 3 men for 12hrs extra + surface grinding)

or do we rip it our and start again?
(cost would be 3 men for 2o hours laying slab! + cost of ripping out and re setting forms)

I cant really understand why they don't stomach it and off set the cost across the rest of our jobs wouldn't be 10%!

dannewhouse · Jun 11, 2019

Thoughts this was 3.30 am

dannewhouse · Jun 11, 2019

You might think we didn't leave it long enough before going on with power float but 1st pass was 6pm and it just would not turn! The pad we did Tuesday everything the same we were away at 6pm later delivery in morning

dairyrow · Jun 11, 2019

i think id have a word again. we had mud in our parlour pit concrete. they kept arguing the toss. Then sent a bloke out to see if his sealant would work on it. In the end they payed for it to be pulled out and relayed

Richy12 · Jun 11, 2019

What company was it? Get the technical team out to look at it.

I'm Irish but work for a large construction company in the UK, recently (3 weeks ago) I had 3 bad loads within 2 days in Manchester on a job, none of which I'm paying for.

Richy12 · Jun 11, 2019

I wouldn't bother thinking about scrabbling it, it will look a dogs dinner.

Check your ticket, was the mix a blend?(cem111)

ANYTHING like this should be cem1.

Then spec your mix for your job whether it's wra, ae, dc2.

multi power · Jun 11, 2019

dannewhouse said:
we laid a concrete pad last Friday 9am and 11am tips (8 + 5cube so not much at all)

at 4 am the next morning we abandoned trying to power float it as it would not go off. (my alarm went of at 3am so I was late for work milking!!!) its a c40 concrete but has plasticizer in which power float mixes don't normally?

what is surface grinding like to try and get a polished finish?

what do you think the concrete company should be doing about it they are saying the concrete is fine and will gain adequate strength. but we are not happy with the finish.

we have 2 things who should pay for the 12 hours we spent extra on the pad more than we should have? (the concrete came with a verbal warning that it might start to go after 2 hours)
and who should pay for the surface grinding which would not have been required?
(cost would be 3 men for 12hrs extra + surface grinding)

or do we rip it our and start again?
(cost would be 3 men for 2o hours laying slab! + cost of ripping out and re setting forms)

I cant really understand why they don't stomach it and off set the cost across the rest of our jobs wouldn't be 10%!

I don't really understand what the problem is, was there something wrong with the mix to stop it setting?

dairyrow · Jun 11, 2019

tg concrete. whats it going to be used for. looks like a feed passage

dannewhouse · Jun 11, 2019

Its to be used as a milk fridge so we wanted a really hard wearing smooth surface for dragging crates across. I don't know what was wrong with the mix but we should have had it power floated and done for like 4/5 pm not that wet at 4 am 19hrs after 1st pour!

The concrete definitely won't be paid for but what to do now spend an additional £500++ to grind surface at who's expense? And who should stand the additional 12 hours we spent trying.
If we carry on and fit the fridge etc and it starts going course on top there will be a big cost ripping it all out etc.

dannewhouse · Jun 11, 2019

Richy12 said:
I wouldn't bother thinking about scrabbling it, it will look a dogs dinner.

Check your ticket, was the mix a blend?(cem111)

ANYTHING like this should be cem1.

Then spec your mix for your job whether it's wra, ae, dc2.

CEM iii and wra
We didn't spec the mix they did which is perhaps good in this sinario

MrA.G. · Jun 11, 2019

dannewhouse said:
CEM iii and wra
We didn't spec the mix they did which is perhaps good in this sinario

CEM III has up to 50% ggbs in it so it was always going to take longer to go off. They probably should have told you that but they may have expected you to know. Shouldn’t be anything wrong with it, apart from not getting the finish you wanted. I can’t see them offering to help to much

dannewhouse · Jun 12, 2019

MrA.G. said:
CEM III has up to 50% ggbs in it so it was always going to take longer to go off. They probably should have told you that but they may have expected you to know. Shouldn’t be anything wrong with it, apart from not getting the finish you wanted. I can’t see them offering to help to much

the concrete came with a verbal warning that it might start to go at 2 hours!
what would an expected time be to be finishing a cem III mix? with a pwer float?

I cant see them offering much help, but I can also see them not being paid as the product supplied was not suitable for the job it was asked for?!?!

Nearly · Jun 12, 2019

@RWG Contracts

Richy12 · Jun 12, 2019

Unless it was red hot weather they should have sent CEM1

PSQ · Jun 12, 2019

Just thinking out loud...

Would the worst of the 'high' roughness scrape off with a grain bucket 14 days into curing?
Would the worst of the 'low' spots fill with self levelling epoxy floor paint / compound?
And would the supplying concrete company 'come to the party' on the cost?

dannewhouse · Jun 12, 2019

PSQ said:
Just thinking out loud...

Would the worst of the 'high' roughness scrape off with a grain bucket 14 days into curing?
Would the worst of the 'low' spots fill with self levelling epoxy floor paint / compound?
And would the supplying concrete company 'come to the party' on the cost?

that's the debate now, its no big slab, 20ft x60ft the next is the same.
we half suggested surface grinding to take the highs off etc but we could end up with another £500 into the job?
same with a epoxy floor paint they are not cheap < this will be only way to get 2 slabs to match something like?
cost is the biggest thing, we are well over budget now on that job, not any of which is our fault in my opinion.

typical that the last 2 sheds have wanted polished floors, not really done much with these lad who works for/with us has but never been involved specifying concrete. the first one went well couldn't complain, but this is turning out to be a pain in arse. (we let concrete company supply what they wanted to for the job)

done 100s of pours that we have left tamp finished or easy float or brush strokes and never had much bother.

designanddetail · Jun 12, 2019

If you ordered it from the concrete suppliers direct and then you signed the delivery ticket then they will have a way out of it and come chasing you for the payment. You have to give them the spec you want, quite often you call the suppliers and it is just an office bod in a call centre taking the order down and they wouldn't know the difference.

Matt · Jun 13, 2019

Concrete companies round here seem to be sods to deal with on times. Arrive when they feel like it. Some loads not the full measure.
Best you can do is speak to the rep but best of luck.

kill · Jun 13, 2019

dannewhouse said:
we laid a concrete pad last Friday 9am and 11am tips (8 + 5cube so not much at all)

at 4 am the next morning we abandoned trying to power float it as it would not go off. (my alarm went of at 3am so I was late for work milking!!!) its a c40 concrete but has plasticizer in which power float mixes don't normally?

what is surface grinding like to try and get a polished finish?

what do you think the concrete company should be doing about it they are saying the concrete is fine and will gain adequate strength. but we are not happy with the finish.

we have 2 things who should pay for the 12 hours we spent extra on the pad more than we should have? (the concrete came with a verbal warning that it might start to go after 2 hours)
and who should pay for the surface grinding which would not have been required?
(cost would be 3 men for 12hrs extra + surface grinding)

or do we rip it our and start again?
(cost would be 3 men for 2o hours laying slab! + cost of ripping out and re setting forms)

I cant really understand why they don't stomach it and off set the cost across the rest of our jobs wouldn't be 10%!

My brother had a shed built around 20 years ago and the concrete was still soft 2 weeks later (Hanson's) and I understand it's to do with the amount of slag used in their mix as it replaces some cement. The only help they done was to supply a chemical to paint onto the concrete which seamed an absolute bodge but luckily enough it's a very low used shed so hasn't caused any issues.

Exfarmer · Jun 13, 2019

your situation depends on who ordered the mix and did they understand from your instruction what was required. Was it all in writing otherwise if you think suing a big company is going to get you far good luck.
I would say that my experience with Hanson, when we had a proven brick issue, thankfully not just mine was they made good , but it took 4 years.
I believe their are resins which you can pour on the floor which self level and may be an easy answer, but not sure how good they will be for a long wearing finish

Failed Concrete what to do?

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