ROOT CROP Newbie

JMTHORNLEY · Jun 12, 2019

After some real help here as big thing on farm, I've never done it.

I have 3 acres of a test plot plagued with weed grass and rush and typically this year it decides to grow grass but heyho it's going. I plan to burn off, flail down then.... I'm at a cross roads...

Do I 1, Rotovate and flat roll then get me pal in to seed with his Guttler
2, Just go straight in with the Guttler following the topper or
3, Plough, PH, roll and then get the Guttler in?

My concerns are soil structure if I plough, I don't want a great big mud bath with the heifers on there September onwards but then I really want a good establishment

Soil PH is VERY good P&K will want about 75-100kgs PA very low on this patch of ground. I plan to plant Winfred

Then there is the issue of grazing it, never done it so don't know best way to do it

Any advice greatly appreciated

ollie989898 · Jun 12, 2019

What are you planning to grow after the Winfred?

I would plough it after spraying it off but realise you are looking to stop it being a mudbath. Make sure it dies back thoroughly. Apply dung/slurry and any P or K needed.

Best way to graze is strip grazing it.

Weed control problematic with these forage crops but there are ways.

JMTHORNLEY · Jun 12, 2019

Honestly I'm not sure what may come next, I am happy to go back to grass but want a decent way to clean the soil bed so have even thought about a small whole crop with a root crop following that and then back to grass in the third year?

Weed control isn't a massive priority as I keep telling myself this is the beginning of a clean high protein re seed

ollie989898 · Jun 12, 2019

JMTHORNLEY said:
Honestly I'm not sure what may come next, I am happy to go back to grass but want a decent way to clean the soil bed so have even thought about a small whole crop with a root crop following that and then back to grass in the third year?

Weed control isn't a massive priority as I keep telling myself this is the beginning of a clean high protein re seed

3 acres of wholecrop? You must be mad.

JMTHORNLEY · Jun 12, 2019

ollie989898 said:
3 acres of wholecrop? You must be mad.

I am

it's all trial and error round here, would you have an idea of anything better to follow it?

ollie989898 · Jun 12, 2019

JMTHORNLEY said:
I am it's all trial and error round here, would you have an idea of anything better to follow it?

Why only 3 acres? It will be a lot of work and management for such a small area.

JMTHORNLEY · Jun 12, 2019

ollie989898 said:
Why only 3 acres? It will be a lot of work and management for such a small area.

It's more about my farm size, I've small fields and not a massive amount of stock.

I've looked at the maps and it's actually 5 acre so a little better.

neilo · Jun 12, 2019

I wouldn't. under any circumstances, let a ploughman anywhere near it. You will just end up with a mudbath in a wet time, especially with cattle grazing it.

All you need with brassicas is to get some soil contact and some moisture and it'll be away. If there's a lot of thatch and topped material on the surface, a Guttler would struggle to get good soil contact without cultivation of some sort, but would be OK if there's plenty of bare soil. A light discing would be faster & cheaper than a rotovator, but if that's what you have, go for it, but only very shallow. Any cultivation will make a lot of weed seeds germinate, but it probably wants to be in fairly soon now for a September grazing, so little time for spraying that flush off with a sniff of glypho, unfortunately.
Your plan of a wholecrop afterwards and another root crop before reseeding sounds like an ideal way to take the weeds out several times, reducing the seed bank.

Strip grazing would be the best way to utilise it, which is a doddle with cattle. Just have a single wire and move it up to the crop to let them graze under it, or walk it into the crop a yard or two, depending on how often you want to move fences/how many cattle/how long it's to last them.

JMTHORNLEY · Jun 12, 2019

neilo said:
I wouldn't. under any circumstances, let a ploughman anywhere near it. You will just end up with a mudbath in a wet time, especially with cattle grazing it.

All you need with brassicas is to get some soil contact and some moisture and it'll be away. If there's a lot of thatch and topped material on the surface, a Guttler would struggle to get good soil contact without cultivation of some sort, but would be OK if there's plenty of bare soil. A light discing would be faster & cheaper than a rotovator, but if that's what you have, go for it, but only very shallow. Any cultivation will make a lot of weed seeds germinate, but it probably wants to be in fairly soon now for a September grazing, so little time for spraying that flush off with a sniff of glypho, unfortunately.
Your plan of a wholecrop afterwards and another root crop before reseeding sounds like an ideal way to take the weeds out several times, reducing the seed bank.

Strip grazing would be the best way to utilise it, which is a doddle with cattle. Just have a single wire and move it up to the crop to let them graze under it, or walk it into the crop a yard or two, depending on how often you want to move fences/how many cattle/how long it's to last them.

Thanks @neilo I can have a Verdo come and slot it in but won't be cheap as he's to travel a bit of a way. Would that be a better idea if I were going to top off? Lots of thatch on this ground hence my thoughts of rotovating? I woudl actually want the seeds to chit so I can spray them out come spring time and rotovate again and spray again for another root crop, possibly turnips for in calf cows with calves at foot?

neilo · Jun 12, 2019

Slotting in would certainly be better, and save you a pass with a rotovator.
You don’t really want the weed seeds to grow at the same time as your brassicas, or they’ll compete with your crop. Cattle will stir it up enough when you graze it, so a lot will chit for the Spring anyway ime. Spray off then.

Derrick Hughes · Jun 12, 2019

How wet is it . Brasicas dont like rush land

JMTHORNLEY · Jun 12, 2019

Dry now, spent most of last summer and autumn and this spring drying it up

Rushes grow here, big old seed bank and lots of rain don’t help. This ground won’t have been touched for 50+ years

Derrick Hughes · Jun 12, 2019

JMTHORNLEY said:
Dry now, spent most of last summer and autumn and this spring drying it up

Rushes grow here, big old seed bank and lots of rain don’t help. This ground won’t have been touched for 50+ years

Send us a picture if you can .despite what others say ploughing dries wet land out as the furrows act as drains

JMTHORNLEY · Jun 12, 2019

Yes no problem, I will send over a picture tomorrow

neilo · Jun 12, 2019

Forage Trader said:
Send us a picture if you can .despite what others say ploughing dries wet land out as the furrows act as drains

It does dry wet land as it lets air into it and breaks through compaction (as long as it’s above plough depth). However, it would also help to create a bottomless quagmire when grazing it in the winter, particularly with cattle.

ollie989898 · Jun 12, 2019

Weeds can be sorted.

ollie989898 · Jun 12, 2019

neilo said:
It does dry wet land as it lets air into it and breaks through compaction (as long as it’s above plough depth). However, it would also help to create a bottomless quagmire when grazing it in the winter, particularly with cattle.

Pros and cons. Depends on the region and the sort of winter we get I guess.

neilo · Jun 12, 2019

ollie989898 said:
Pros and cons. Depends on the region and the sort of winter we get I guess.

I guess so. If you could guarantee a winter like the last one then maybe. Nobody needs to plough to get brassicas to strike, although they might have other reasons of course. Why would you seek to bury the weed seeds on the surface, so they emerge over several years, in order to create a loose surface to carry stock in a wet time?
I can’t see any positives, but lots of potential negatives.

JMTHORNLEY · Jun 13, 2019

Okay thanks fellas,

Here's what I am thinking now, due to the thatch present in the sward I plan to spray and top down then spread my fert and rotovate at about 2-1/2 - 3 inches down at the very most to try and make some kind of tilth, get the Guttler in and roll after?

Good - thinking it won't churn up to much and less establishment cost due to having everything on hand
Bad - potentially a lot of trash in the top layer mixing the topped material off into such shallow depth?

What you think

michael N123 · Jun 13, 2019

JMTHORNLEY said:
Dry now, spent most of last summer and autumn and this spring drying it up

Rushes grow here, big old seed bank and lots of rain don’t help. This ground won’t have been touched for 50+ years

I’ve just done a small field a few weeks back and put a kale an turnip mix in some fert shut the gate and hope for the best

Smashed the reshes up first then plowed it

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