I have often thought that if we carried guns like the cowboys use to there would often be an impromptu freezer full
"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..
- Thread starter Kiwi Pete
- Start date
GreenerGrass
Member
- Location
- Wilts
Been reading back through this topic, and trying to get my head around grazing plans. I have just budgeted where I expect to be - based on current rotation speed for the next rotation. But this seems very basic and there is reference to DM feed required etc, and I am just not sure how to go about improving my info on it. I don't really measure much at the moment. Sort of by eye I work out, and the sheep tell me when they need a new paddock. I am basically giving 100 ewes + 140 lambs about 0.7 acres.day average. So sometimes a 0.7 acre paddock, and sometimes a 2.x acre one that they are in for 3 days. It depends a bit on infrastructure, and slightly governed by lack of wire at the minute.
How far forward do you try and plan it? I have two fields I am hoping to cut hay this month, and then they will join the rotation, which will increase paddock numbers. However, I will have to split ram lambs from ewes & ewe lambs, so will also be running two mobs (presently just one).
As it stands my current rest period is 38 days. This is based on 15 paddocks, which are grazed between 1 and 3 days. I can subdivide them (and probably will) to make them all into daily paddocks. But for now seeking advice on how to fill in grazing plan/chart. I have done a map of farm and drawn on paddock numbers/shapes, which felt like progress but beyond that just not sure what I'm doing...
How far forward do you try and plan it? I have two fields I am hoping to cut hay this month, and then they will join the rotation, which will increase paddock numbers. However, I will have to split ram lambs from ewes & ewe lambs, so will also be running two mobs (presently just one).
As it stands my current rest period is 38 days. This is based on 15 paddocks, which are grazed between 1 and 3 days. I can subdivide them (and probably will) to make them all into daily paddocks. But for now seeking advice on how to fill in grazing plan/chart. I have done a map of farm and drawn on paddock numbers/shapes, which felt like progress but beyond that just not sure what I'm doing...
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Interested in the answer to this too. This thread is great to be involved in, but has rambled far and wide from what the title suggests. Be good to bring it back on topic?
baaa
Member
I am also running 100 ewes & 140 lambs. I am also having trouble with respect for electric. I'm thinking of getting some electric sheep netting which I will attach to my fibre glass posts as the ground is too hard for pushing in the ones that come with the netting. My grass is shorter than I would like so I am wondering how to get my poor starved all natural yorkshire fog, cocksfoot etc some nutrition because I assume that inorganic fertilizer won't do alot apart from making more acidity.
I'm thinking of setting up a moveable water supply fed by an IBC water butt, which I will dig in for refilling and let gravity take the water to lower parts. So the ball cock needs to be for low pressure fill. Is anyone else doing this? Has anyone made their own drinker with a ball cock?
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
How similarly do your different paddocks and soils grow, as this alone can have a big bearing.
I have roughly 4 different pasture types, experience tells me which ones grow the best overall, and also that I need to keep about a 60 day reserve "up my sleeve".
During summer my older fields really grow like stink, but at the shoulders of the season they are much slower. The younger grass fields tend to grow for longer but also have a midsummer crisis due to being dominated by short rotation ryegrass.
Then I have (had?) the concern of lambing, tupping and shearing, so I plan any "knowns" well in advance, it makes little sense to have the cattle at the far end of the ranch when tb testing is due, or have the lambers hidden from view while in the thick of lambing.
Equinoxial weather means I plan for good covers in the most sheltered paddocks.
So then my wife and I sit down with a brew and a blank chart and put all our commitments and known stuff down on a sheet of paper, and plan for these first, in pencil. Straightaway this means that the mobs will be well placed to make management easier for these events, or if I'm going to be away somewhere .
You aren't alone, I really struggled to get my head around the first chart until I actually had a go at it, once you're actually implementing it "on the ground" then it suddenly falls into place.
You are on the right track, what I'd suggest is to record first "where the stock have grazed" accurately on your chart, as far back as you can remember - and then plan forward from that, based on the planned plant recovery times based on your own experiences.
I honestly think many (myself included in this) who are transitioning from a rotational to rational system struggle with grazing speeds, and the potential to graze much faster and slower than we are accustomed to - simply because of the "drought reserve" factor.
For eg, many will only vary between 25 and 50 days of recovery, when it's actually quite possible to graze between 10 and 200 days apart.
This simply can't be done effectively if we hammer our pastures too low, which is always going to happen for a start.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
It's always going to be slightly "wrong", too, so don't be too alarmed if you fall of the wagon a little, at times.
But I do believe that many also go too far with plant recoveries, grazing tends to evolve quite quickly as the change in management impacts the landscape and the amount of grass grown changes.
In our own example, this year we are leaving behind roughly the same cover we were going into this time last year, simply because of destocking earlier and stocking more heavily at the right time.
As my old man would say, "this grass belongs to the farm, not to "my stock"" and so grazing planning is best done after you've established a holistic context, written it down and internalised it; and also worked out a holistic financial plan.
A grazing chart by itself is hardly "holistic", it's just a grazing chart. Just as a calendar isn't much by itself.
But I do believe that many also go too far with plant recoveries, grazing tends to evolve quite quickly as the change in management impacts the landscape and the amount of grass grown changes.
In our own example, this year we are leaving behind roughly the same cover we were going into this time last year, simply because of destocking earlier and stocking more heavily at the right time.
As my old man would say, "this grass belongs to the farm, not to "my stock"" and so grazing planning is best done after you've established a holistic context, written it down and internalised it; and also worked out a holistic financial plan.
A grazing chart by itself is hardly "holistic", it's just a grazing chart. Just as a calendar isn't much by itself.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Are they seeing it alright?
I guess if they are making a calculated attempt to run through it, then that's a yes, but first off I would use a tape for the middle strand in your fence. Tape is much more visible, and it moves in a breeze which is quite offputting to sheep... especially if you have a twist in it.
I have some old faded orange poly and it is hard enough to see in daylight, so the odd one would stumble through it and get a belt for a start, especially these hoggs who had never seen an electric fence!
However repeat offenders need to leave, however good a sheep is; if they don't fit your system, conform to mob rule, then you're farting against thunder. They will simply lead the mob unto temptation.
Regular shifting, on foot, soon helps to emphasise the importance to them of remaining "in the mob" as opposed to outside it, doing their own thing.
Any fencers here get put on the lane for a day or two, watching their mates eating through a netting fence soon seems to get through their thick heads to wait for me!
I use 3 wires now, because I have the electric fence switched off and keep them on the trot, so to speak.
"Brute force" shouldn't really be necessary, IMO of course.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Not much "drought reserve" left on the ground now. The sheep are leaving this week, and then I'll invoice the man.
When you look at the pros and cons, I could have baled the surplus up and paid the contractors about $7000 to do so.
What I did instead, was turn it into $5000 income with these hoggs here for a few weeks, we still go into winter with not much grass but importantly they have returned it straight back to the landscape.
Because that's where the nutrients belong
Because the grass belongs to the ranch
ShooTa
Member
- Location
- Denbighshire - In the vale of Clwyd!
and take photos because memory fades./
AND the wheels do fall off.... you cant jump to a 120 day rest without something taking a hit.. last year it was my animals - this year im having shorter rests but trying to leave out fields so they get that rest
AND the wheels do fall off.... you cant jump to a 120 day rest without something taking a hit.. last year it was my animals - this year im having shorter rests but trying to leave out fields so they get that rest
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
- Location
- Derbyshire
One day I will have a plan like @Treg ,, but for now it's one big experiment. These bullers have just had 9 days on one section of hill and have now moved into some well grown rye.
The contractor said that this paddock is too inaccessible for him to mow and bale.
Pansey
Earlier grazing and letting this rye do it's thing has really suppressed the thistles that were there, so I'm hoping a good graze and traampleing will hopefully do more good than mowing
The contractor said that this paddock is too inaccessible for him to mow and bale.
Pansey
Earlier grazing and letting this rye do it's thing has really suppressed the thistles that were there, so I'm hoping a good graze and traampleing will hopefully do more good than mowing
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
Thanks, dug out the earbuds and had a listen, very good.
baaa
Member
Thank you for your advice. I do have lots of white tape hanging around. I learned to use plain wire for the horses years ago because it keeps them in better, but I also use a more visible top wire with them.
I have fenced the horses in 1/4 acre paddocks now moving them daily. There's not enough grass so I have hay ready to give them. For the moment it is an exercise in spreading their fertilizer more evenly around the field. I am testing to see if this is better for the land than having a smaller set place and giving hay there constantly. This will rest the other areas but won't fertilise it. Their tendancy to "go" in one place has resulted in the starving areas. I originally started with sheep to eat the rough areas the horses created then got hooked.
Still trying to get my head around the water supply and making the shape and size of the paddocks better for that. The pipe is cheap, but the connectors are a killer.
I need to set up video surveillance to find the big offenders, although I'm pretty sure it's the lambs who blast through it. I did sell my big Suffolk ram for repeated offences. I'm looking at getting a couple of lines of electric netting. I'll keep the fibreglass stakes in the ground and attach and detach the netting as they move around. This should be quite efficient time wise if I run!
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
I use netting all the time and it is relatively quick and easy to set it up and then take it down again. It is important to put the fence up properly maintaining as much tightness as possible. This cannot be done if you remove the netting from the stakes. The tension you create when putting the fence up is essential for its integrity- both safety wise for theanimals and for the energiser output.
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
No worries there, just remember my advice is worth no more than you paid for it and we'll get along just fine
The thing with tape is that the slightest air current will make it move, and it may just be enough to make them think again, rather than just blasting through it.
We had standard pushers in a dairy herd, so by rubbing a ram crayon on the standards we soon worked them out and put them all in one mob. Then used the "hot" standards you can get for cattle and learnt them a bit about respecting the fence.
Not so easily done with sheep other than to "picket fence" them and that's a fair cost in terms of time and resources, but if you have netting and supplementary feed then go with that
- Location
- Owaka, New Zealand
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...¬if_t=feedback_reaction_generic&__tn__=R-R
Nifty gadget. What are you like with making electric timer circuits @holwellcourtfarm ?
Small electric winch, limit switches, and a timer that can be preset 4, 8, 12, 16, 24 hours
Nifty gadget. What are you like with making electric timer circuits @holwellcourtfarm ?
Small electric winch, limit switches, and a timer that can be preset 4, 8, 12, 16, 24 hours
- Location
- Quebec, Canada
That’s brilliant .better than the batt latch IMO.https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...¬if_t=feedback_reaction_generic&__tn__=R-R
Nifty gadget. What are you like with making electric timer circuits @holwellcourtfarm ?
Small electric winch, limit switches, and a timer that can be preset 4, 8, 12, 16, 24 hours
- Location
- Derbyshire
I really am liking my portable trough. Think it will be the biggest factor in improving this 100 acre block of limestone hill.
- Location
- Angus
They cut the peat themselves from a local source next to a lake, it is a communal resource used by the local community.
They make and use their own compost every year but every 5(?) years they completely re-mulch the entire market garden which requires buying in a huge amount. Richard also discusses this and openly talks about how market gardening is very resource and labour intensive but it is also a very quick and profitable way to start up a business in agriculture. I don't know where you got the 30t/ha/year from but their market gardens cover 1500m2 so only half an acre...
I don't understand your problem with a farm buying in animal feed and compost, how is that not regenerative? It is not self-sufficient certainly but they absolutely never claim to be self sufficient.
Regenerative agriculture is about increasing soil fertility, biodiversity and farming in a way that improves your land. Absolutely no aspect of regen-ag is about being 100% self sufficient and never buying in anything. As I pointed out previously every single champion of regen-ag fully advocates buying in fertility and resources to improve your land.
You also haven't addressed my point about why is it so important to do everything yourself rather than buying from other local organic/regen farm businesses or taking waste products that would be burnt or go to landfill to improve your land?
You seem to be attacking them based on the false premise that they do not produce all their feed and compost themselves which is not a key aspect of regen ag in the first place. You also ignore the fact that Richard is very open about what they do very well and what they want to improve in the future. They do not try to hide anything they do and they are set up to educate and assist people to either start farming or change from industrial farming to regen which is always a positive thing.
Surely the fact that dozens if not hundreds of regenerative, sustainable farming businesses have been started by the people that have passed through Ridgedale or read the book or done the online course balances out the fact that they buy in organic locally grown bird food?