Debt

Why arable farmers.? Their costs would be a lot more than many livestock farms that could manage extensively with very little machinery and permanent grass .

And I'd say livestock boys have got the stronger balance sheet with the value of the stock. Every year arable farmers gamble the lot on a decent summer
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Lots of farmers in this country were saved
by government intervention.
Cashing in milk quota that should never have been
monetarily tradeable and excessive F&M compensation.
Take these two out of the equation and alot of the so
called clever ones would have rather smaller businesses.

“Clever” is making the best of the cards you are dealt surely ?

Another thing I observe a lot amongst farmers is jealousy. Often to justify their own poor decisions, No better example of that than the attitudes to debt in this thread so far from some
 

lloyd

Member
Location
Herefordshire
“Clever” is making the best of the cards you are dealt surely ?

Another thing I observe a lot amongst farmers is jealousy. Often to justify their own poor decisions, No better example of that than the attitudes to debt in this thread so far from some

Nothing wrong with making good use of easy money I do that
myself but not at the expense of patronising farmers who perhaps
have been dealt a less favourable hand.
 

An Gof

Member
Location
Cornwall
Any farmer that owns their land and still can’t make a decent living really is doing something astoundingly wrong ! They really should give up for their own safety!

The size and structure of your business is not typical. There are a whole host of owner occupiers in the SW, and I guess other areas, that do not have your scale and operate in less favourable sectors such as lowland livestock. Making a “decent” living living can be a challenge for them even with their often modest requirements. The sort of “decent living” you might consider would be fanciful thinking for many.
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
Some people are certainly lucky to have
the oppuortunity to build on an already
existing capital rich business their father had developed
before them.
You get the feeling on here that certain individuals had all
the Britains toys as a child:whistle:
I can only speak for myself but when I left School at 15 we had 90 acres .when dad retired we had 650 acres . I have Worked on the farm full time without wages since the age of 15 .I would expect a lot af farmers developed like that around here.
 
Location
Cheshire
Some people are certainly lucky to have
the oppuortunity to build on an already
existing capital rich business their father had developed
before them.
You get the feeling on here that certain individuals had all
the Britains toys as a child:whistle:

As soon as someone focuses on this type of thing, they ain't going to amount to anything. You can't change what's done, you can influence the future.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
How much do you know about livestock farming ?

I grew up on a dairy farm - so I know enough to know it’s not a business I want to be involved in or invest my money in

I know that just like arable farmers some livestock guys seem to be able to make good money whilst others claim it’s impossible ......... I spot a theme there !

Are people forced to be livestock farmers ?
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
The size and structure of your business is not typical. There are a whole host of owner occupiers in the SW, and I guess other areas, that do not have your scale and operate in less favourable sectors such as lowland livestock. Making a “decent” living living can be a challenge for them even with their often modest requirements. The sort of “decent living” you might consider would be fanciful thinking for many.

And my size and structure just fell out of the sky did it ? I just “got lucky ?

I grew up on a small, part owned part tenanted dairy farm with a load of debt and a big overdraft that wasn’t making a lot of money at all and would probably be long gone if I had just carried on “as was”

Where it is today is is down to work, skill, sacrifice and risk taking by me and my father over the following 25years. At times we have taken on huge debt (risk) to achieve that

It’s not luck !


Maybe I should have remained running that small diary farm and spent my days moaning about how “lucky” others are ?
 
Last edited:

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Some people are certainly lucky to have
the oppuortunity to build on an already
existing capital rich business their father had developed
before them.
You get the feeling on here that certain individuals had all
the Britains toys as a child:whistle:

In my own case you can not begin to imagine how far from the truth that is

But I agree farmers like that do exist - they are usually the worst businessmen of all because they never had a reason to try

Frankly this is my biggest fear for my children and I would rather they didn’t farm as a result
 
And some of us are tenants . A decent mans salary goes off farm here to the landlord, so owner occupiers must be doing alright
It’s not quite as straightforward as that, owner occupiers get bills that tenants don’t. Last year I put new windows in the house that would have amounted to about a years rent, and that was taking the cheapest option replacing sash windows with hinged windows albeit in the same style as the originals. To replace with upvc sash windows would have more than doubled the cost.
A mate of mine who’s a tennant had new oak windows a few years back in his listed farmhouse, he reckoned at the time it cost near enough 3 years rent, the house has also been rewired and re roofed in recent years, all paid for by the landlord.

Didn’t you mention a while back that the estate had put all new buildings on your farm albeit quite a number of years back.

I think I may allready have said, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
 
Last edited:

milkloss

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
And some of us are tenants . A decent mans salary goes off farm here to the landlord, so owner occupiers must be doing alright

A few thoughts about tenanted vs owned farms
The rent ‘focuses’ the mind towards profitability and efficiency.
They are rented therefore have to more profitable to pay the rent so likely better ground, better buildings etc etc.
Cost of upkeep and building maintenance and construction.
Tenants can more easily jump to another farm for whatever reason, the most pertinent being to find a more profitable farm. I’m not saying owners couldn’t, it’s just that there may be more ties such as family history, cost of sale/purchase etc.

I’m not too knowledgable about it all I’ll admit so am I wrong?
 
Last edited:

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
I grew up on a dairy farm - so I know enough to know it’s not a business I want to be involved in or invest my money in

I know that just like arable farmers some livestock guys seem to be able to make good money whilst others claim it’s impossible ......... I spot a theme there !

Are people forced to be livestock farmers ?
The question was about dept, not if they are forced to farm
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.1%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 67 35.3%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,294
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top