So much for market forces......

kiwi pom · Aug 16, 2019

Clive said:
Actually looks like we import 90-100k t total sheep meat and export about 100k t

https://britishmeatindustry.org/industry/imports-exports/sheepmeat/

Madness ! environmental vandalism and and a situation that results in our producers needing subs to stay in business

The problem is you have to provide what the public wants. Import some cuts and export others. Make the consumer eat the whole animal and they might give it up all together. If you ban imports the chances are you wont be able to export so you get too much of one thing and not enough of another. Which would be very wasteful.

I used to haul onions to a pack house here, I believe the top grades went to Europe the oversize to Asia and all the crap that was left got dumped on the local supermarkets cheap.
I suspect its the same with most things. Food miles are only part of the story.

Doesn't the UK export feed wheat but import milling wheat? Sounds crazy to me, make farmers grow milling wheat but there's perhaps a good reason for it?

Clive · Aug 16, 2019

Forage Trader said:
Cant you freeze it . The summer surplus! Call me stupid if that's a stuppid question I dont mind . Frozen Veg is the best thing invented . It's almost instant, Less waste . No waste and tastes fresher . Must be wonderful for someone living on their own

a lot of the greatest inventions ever have the biggest environmental consequences - we simply can not continue having no regard for that as has been the case for the last 100 years

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1156994644699418624

kiwi pom · Aug 16, 2019

7610 super q said:
Genuine question..... UK barley is the cheapest on the planet, straw price is on the floor, plenty of fodder for sale on FB for less than COP...... how are you losing £100 / head ? Am I missing something ?

Barley and straw? Buy in fodder? Have you not been reading all the save the planet threads?
UK beef is all environmentally friendly finished on grazed grass.
If the NFU had a good PR department you'd know that?

Clive · Aug 16, 2019

kiwi pom said:
The problem is you have to provide what the public wants. Import some cuts and export others. Make the consumer eat the whole animal and they might give it up all together. If you ban imports the chances are you wont be able to export so you get too much of one thing and not enough of another. Which would be very wasteful.

I used to haul onions to a pack house here, I believe the top grades went to Europe the oversize to Asia and all the crap that was left got dumped on the local supermarkets cheap.
I suspect its the same with most things. Food miles are only part of the story.

Doesn't the UK export feed wheat but import milling wheat? Sounds crazy to me, make farmers grow milling wheat but there's perhaps a good reason for it?

yes the milling wheat situation is a environmentally crazy as lamb - we grow way too much feed wheat that we have to export yet we have to import a lot of milling wheat

the reason is purely economic not that it can't be grown in the UK

Cowcorn · Aug 16, 2019

Clive said:
well things need to change - what we have right ow doesn't wprk for producer, consume and especially the environment

using Lamb as an example we can produce every bit we want / need in this country if economic circumstance (imports) are controlled better - doing so makes far more sense than subs

same goes for milling wheat and oilseed etc

the biggest victim of all right now is the planet not us farmers

I mean surely anyone can sit back and think about the true madness and climate cost of NZ lamb on a Welsh supermarket shelf !!

I think its called TRADE maybe you could lead by example by say sourcing your tractors from Basildon and maybe your drills from Suffolk . As a matter of fact the worst enviormental vandals are PEOPLE tourists to be precise the are wrecking the great sights of the world with too many visitors . Soo no more ski trips ok ? Or are your enviormental concerns only a passing fad that will have passed by ski time ?
Now please dont get me wrong Clive im not having a pop at you but things are never simple .

caveman · Aug 17, 2019

Just eat the bits of sheep you want to eat and feed the rest to pigs and chickens.
Like putting money in a piggy bank.

lloyd · Aug 17, 2019

This government has shown no real concern
or promise about restricting food imports coming in after
Brexit.
Why would they?
Cheap food ,happy voter.
Farmers are a small minority of the population so
at the moment it looks like theres a storm brewing.
How big a storm is anyones guess but farmers have
benefitted from generous planning and tax advantages the
last few years so if you want to bring back fairness
and socialist ideology then vote Corbyn.
After all subsidies come in many guises.

Kiwi Pete · Aug 17, 2019

Sonoftheheir said:
Isn’t NZ lamb, frozen then defrosted here?

Some export is frozen but the lion's share is chilled, often the cuts have the air excluded at packaging, and replaced with CO2 to inhibit bacterial growth on the product - so it's likely better in this respect than meat that has been frozen and thawed.

Courtesy of the Meat Industry Assoc. website www.mia.co.nz

Kiwi Pete · Aug 17, 2019

Clive said:
well things need to change - what we have right ow doesn't wprk for producer, consume and especially the environment

using Lamb as an example we can produce every bit we want / need in this country if economic circumstance (imports) are controlled better - doing so makes far more sense than subs

same goes for milling wheat and oilseed etc

the biggest victim of all right now is the planet not us farmers

I mean surely anyone can sit back and think about the true madness and climate cost of NZ lamb on a Welsh supermarket shelf !!

Did you not read the article in the Guardian, Clive?
Their advice was that if you want to eat lamb with a lower Carbon and environmental footprint, to buy NZ lamb.
The main difference actually isn't in the lamb production side, other than the extra footprints of using shorter term leys and concentrates; rather the transport and process after the lamb is grown.

Sea transport is incredibly efficient, of course; IIRC something around 0.2kgCO2/tonne/km - but the main difference is that down here lambs will go on a wagon+drag, 600 lambs direct to slaughter.
None of this 15 fat lambs in a box behind a tractor stuff - we would be just as broke if we operated this way, which would make as much sense as an 800 cow dairy carrying milk to the factory in churns, or you hauling your grain to the mill on an 8x4 trailer..

..that, and the more ring-fenced land resources that economy dictates - offlying land is a major cost/loss to a small business.
Most all businesses would make good use of a decent advisor/mentor, but few apparently use them, preferring to ask their competitors how to hone their business and spend the money on buying more toys ?

Where's my tin hat?

Farmer Roy · Aug 17, 2019

Kiwi Pete said:
Did you not read the article in the Guardian, Clive?
Their advice was that if you want to eat lamb with a lower Carbon and environmental footprint, to buy NZ lamb.
The main difference actually isn't in the lamb production side, other than the extra footprints of using shorter term leys and concentrates; rather the transport and process after the lamb is grown.

Sea transport is incredibly efficient, of course; IIRC something around 0.2kgCO2/tonne/km - but the main difference is that down here lambs will go on a wagon+drag, 600 lambs direct to slaughter.
None of this 15 fat lambs in a box behind a tractor stuff - we would be just as broke if we operated this way, which would make as much sense as an 800 cow dairy carrying milk to the factory in churns, or you hauling your grain to the mill on an 8x4 trailer..

..that, and the more ring-fenced land resources that economy dictates - offlying land is a major cost/loss to a small business.
Most all businesses would make good use of a decent advisor/mentor, but few apparently use them, preferring to ask their competitors how to hone their business and spend the money on buying more toys ?

Where's my tin hat?

sadly I expect most don't even understand 80 % of what you say & the 20% they do understand, they react negatively to it
you always speak a lot of sense mate, but you cant change the peasant / slave mentality of some or the entitled view of others . . .
what will be will be, others will come along & pick up the pieces

Billboy1 · Aug 17, 2019

I know it’s not an answer for everybody but what you need to do is get closer to your customers and sell direct because as primary producer your always a price taker and will get shafted from time to time ps I got out of the beef job 20 years ago (why) ? Because I bought a weigh crush and quickly realised it wasn’t making any decent profits bit easier for me though as I could do something else diversifying wise miss looking at them though !

Canada Farmer · Aug 17, 2019

Kiwi Pete said:
Did you not read the article in the Guardian, Clive?
Their advice was that if you want to eat lamb with a lower Carbon and environmental footprint, to buy NZ lamb.
The main difference actually isn't in the lamb production side, other than the extra footprints of using shorter term leys and concentrates; rather the transport and process after the lamb is grown.

Sea transport is incredibly efficient, of course; IIRC something around 0.2kgCO2/tonne/km - but the main difference is that down here lambs will go on a wagon+drag, 600 lambs direct to slaughter.
None of this 15 fat lambs in a box behind a tractor stuff - we would be just as broke if we operated this way, which would make as much sense as an 800 cow dairy carrying milk to the factory in churns, or you hauling your grain to the mill on an 8x4 trailer..

..that, and the more ring-fenced land resources that economy dictates - offlying land is a major cost/loss to a small business.
Most all businesses would make good use of a decent advisor/mentor, but few apparently use them, preferring to ask their competitors how to hone their business and spend the money on buying more toys ?

Where's my tin hat?

That would never happen in Canada thanks to supply management , eh

lloyd · Aug 17, 2019

Kiwi Pete said:
Did you not read the article in the Guardian, Clive?
Their advice was that if you want to eat lamb with a lower Carbon and environmental footprint, to buy NZ lamb.
The main difference actually isn't in the lamb production side, other than the extra footprints of using shorter term leys and concentrates; rather the transport and process after the lamb is grown.

Sea transport is incredibly efficient, of course; IIRC something around 0.2kgCO2/tonne/km - but the main difference is that down here lambs will go on a wagon+drag, 600 lambs direct to slaughter.
None of this 15 fat lambs in a box behind a tractor stuff - we would be just as broke if we operated this way, which would make as much sense as an 800 cow dairy carrying milk to the factory in churns, or you hauling your grain to the mill on an 8x4 trailer..

..that, and the more ring-fenced land resources that economy dictates - offlying land is a major cost/loss to a small business.
Most all businesses would make good use of a decent advisor/mentor, but few apparently use them, preferring to ask their competitors how to hone their business and spend the money on buying more toys ?

Where's my tin hat?

You know I love you Pete(happily married)
but do you beleive everything you read Pete?
You have to look at who writes for the Guardian
and their hidden agendas.
15 fat lambs in a box ?
Alot of lambs going deadweight in artics nowadays.
Number of slaughterhouses and distance travelled
to each?

Your main carbon advantage is your more sustained
grass growth with less harsh winters but ours is linked
to a vibrant tourist industry like yours so no livestock,
no incentive to maintain it thus sending more people
abroad on planes unless they've got an addiction to
oilseed rape aromas .

Edit
I see you haven't mentioned what the guardian has to say about NZ dairying
and what they have to say about your polluted waters.

lloyd · Aug 17, 2019

Clive said:
a lot of the greatest inventions ever have the biggest environmental consequences - we simply can not continue having no regard for that as has been the case for the last 100 years

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1156994644699418624

And grain driers run on what?
Dry forecast coming who's waiting for mother nature?

Kiwi Pete · Aug 17, 2019

lloyd said:
You know I love you Pete(happily married)
but do you beleive everything you read Pete?
You have to look at who writes for the Guardian
and their hidden agendas.
15 fat lambs in a box ?
Alot of lambs going deadweight in artics nowadays.
Number of slaughterhouses and distance travelled
to each?

Your main carbon advantage is your more sustained
grass growth with less harsh winters but ours is linked
to a vibrant tourist industry like yours so no livestock,
no incentive to maintain it thus sending more people
abroad on planes unless they've got an addiction to
oilseed rape aromas .

Edit
I see you haven't mentioned what the guardian has to say about NZ dairying
and what they have to say about your polluted waters.

No, not at all, they simply put forward AHDB reports to back up their agenda.
I'll see if I can find their studies for your perusal.

I believe the "more sustained grass growth" part to be true enough, for about a quarter of the NZ land area; the remainder being too high, too dry or too wet - the advantage here is that nobody with that type of land is trying to do too much with it, and long may it stay that way.

As for the water - always an interesting topic, it's always polluted after it's been through a town or city, but the blame slides right off and back to the catchment.
Oddly the main pollutants other than heavy metals and e. coli are good old glyphosate residues, with nitrates much lower down the list in most all NZ waterways.
That's down to the availability heuretic in most media reports, IMO the real question is what's all the glyphosate doing in the water, if it is so benign, safe, inert, and good for the planet?

Sonoftheheir · Aug 17, 2019

The glyphosate thing seems strange? Would there be much use on grazing land? If at all?

Bury the Trash · Aug 17, 2019

I give up editing on this new system is hopelessly ineffecient as is the adding of emojis

Clive · Aug 17, 2019

Cowcorn said:
I think its called TRADE maybe you could lead by example by say sourcing your tractors from Basildon and maybe your drills from Suffolk . As a matter of fact the worst enviormental vandals are PEOPLE tourists to be precise the are wrecking the great sights of the world with too many visitors . Soo no more ski trips ok ? Or are your enviormental concerns only a passing fad that will have passed by ski time ?
Now please dont get me wrong Clive im not having a pop at you but things are never simple .

If the economic situation was correct I would love to buy uk built tractors and cars etc rather than German

Something else that needs to change and probably will post brexit I think

I can’t afford to lead by example and have no mandate to do so but I will do whatever makes most financial sense - it’s our governments job to sort that by controlling the cost of imports not mine !

Bury the Trash · Aug 17, 2019

Yeah, well you would think that being close to yer market was all.

' course thats just what NZ hasnt got, .......a market..thats close...

lloyd · Aug 17, 2019

Kiwi Pete said:
No, not at all, they simply put forward AHDB reports to back up their agenda.
I'll see if I can find their studies for your perusal.

I believe the "more sustained grass growth" part to be true enough, for about a quarter of the NZ land area; the remainder being too high, too dry or too wet - the advantage here is that nobody with that type of land is trying to do too much with it, and long may it stay that way.

As for the water - always an interesting topic, it's always polluted after it's been through a town or city, but the blame slides right off and back to the catchment.
Oddly the main pollutants other than heavy metals and e. coli are good old glyphosate residues, with nitrates much lower down the list in most all NZ waterways.
That's down to the availability heuretic in most media reports, IMO the real question is what's all the glyphosate doing in the water, if it is so benign, safe, inert, and good for the planet?

An international conservation group ranked NZ as the second most culprit
for deforestation in the world ,is it not time to repair the damage done from
previous generations?
Perhaps NZ should reverse their successful farming production for a more
back to nature ,tourism led approach?
High levels of glyphosate and over use with poor restrictions can not be good for
a country that sells itself on sustainable ,environmentally friendly produced food.

So much for market forces......

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