Fight fire with fire ?

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
blimey, has it been that bad ? glad I haven't been arsed to read on since it turned in to sausagegate.

Chin up Clive, whatever people have said, remind yourself what we keep telling Guy Smith: All criticism is constructive :)

yep - i'm done with trying to make any kind of difference

My focus is now firmly on my own business and making money, I wish the rest of you the best of luck
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
This is the kind of thought process I would expect from a townie.

Not every farmer can grow carrots .. and it should be very obvious to most farmers that we are all inter linked.

I grow cereals which are not just used for humans but also for livestock.

If I was just growing food for humans then not only would I be financially poorer but the farm would be less efficient AND the cycle of nutrients flowing through the industry would be shrunk.

A similar situation occured in Veal carcasses in Europe .. lots of media about how ethically bad Veal was, the meat trade reacted and the situation since then has been some male calves treated as waste.

Farming should be about the long term best use/welfare of resources/livestock to create healthy food .. not pandering to fads created by media pundits at the expense of livestock welfare.

I don't know where you farm so its hard to comment but if you can grow an arable crop and own land in the UK I think your future is fairly secure. Even if its only the fact that land there is in demand for non farming uses.
It is perhaps possible you may have to change what you do a little as consumer demand changes but as I wrote earlier people still need to eat.
Perhaps this is the reason there's such a strong reaction on here at the moment. UK Ag doesn't seem particularly market driven. People produce what they want, how they want and always have a market for it but for the first time people are pushing back a little. Maybe things don't look quite so secure at the moment.
Welcome to the rest of the world where 'townies' lose businesses or get made redundant every day.

Perhaps stay of social media and stop watching the news for a while.
 
I don't know where you farm so its hard to comment but if you can grow an arable crop and own land in the UK I think your future is fairly secure. Even if its only the fact that land there is in demand for non farming uses.
It is perhaps possible you may have to change what you do a little as consumer demand changes but as I wrote earlier people still need to eat.
Perhaps this is the reason there's such a strong reaction on here at the moment. UK Ag doesn't seem particularly market driven. People produce what they want, how they want and always have a market for it but for the first time people are pushing back a little. Maybe things don't look quite so secure at the moment.
Welcome to the rest of the world where 'townies' lose businesses or get made redundant every day.

Perhaps stay of social media and stop watching the news for a while.
Eh, stop watching the news?:unsure:






It's nearly two years since I last watched the news , and not miss watching our drop kick of a PM either.....;):LOL:
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
Why would anyone want to farm where you do.Where you get burnt to a frazzle,and there is never enough rain to grow any crops?

I could answer that it so many ways, but I'll leave it up to @Clive, as he suggested it, not me




maybe because of farmers like Sam. We stripped his dryland cotton this year, a good operator & not one to rest on his laurels. Heres a little film he commissioned to showcase his farm & the mindset / attitude / culture that allows resilience in a at times harsh environment
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
Simple question: Does TFF have a resident journalist?

Some of us may have stories that we would not want to repeat for personal reasons that might need repeating.

I never met a journalist yet who wasn't interested in a good story -- and most will protect their sources! Just need to be sure whose side they are on before giving it to them.
 

Raider112

Member
I posted the poster on facebook, got a few likes and a few comments, one said the problem is what's in the pork, antibiotics, glyphosphate, etc. and that we should eat organic. It gave me the chance to explain that we have to record medicines, adhere to withdrawal periods and sign a declaration when we sell stock and that there would be big trouble if we messed up in any way. I also pointed out that supermarket sausages probably contained a lot of the things found in vegan sausages I agreed that we should at least go for quality, so it gives the opportunity to point a few things out that people may not have otherwise picked up on.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Simple question: Does TFF have a resident journalist?

Some of us may have stories that we would not want to repeat for personal reasons that might need repeating.

I never met a journalist yet who wasn't interested in a good story -- and most will protect their sources! Just need to be sure whose side they are on before giving it to them.

A good story these days is one that scares, shocks or discusts

Good news, positive stuff is none existent in modern media if you think about it
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
A good story these days is one that scares, shocks or discusts

Good news, positive stuff is none existent in modern media if you think about it

that's why social media is so important to get your story out

just like everything else about UK ag - don't wait for SOMEONE ELSE to do it. Take charge & do it yourself, or at least encourage & support those that do
 
Last edited:

Cowcorn

Member
Mixed Farmer
Been trying

But as for others .......... you can lead a horse to water BUT ........
You have to wonder is this thread a snapshot of how the NFU manages to be so behind the curve ? Does every good idea get picked to pieces by dissenters counting angels on a pinhead ? And what eventually emerges is so watered down and out of date . Whatever happened to a united voice ?
 
that's why social media is so important to get your story out

just like everything else about UK ag - don't wait for SOMEONE ELSE to do it. Take charge & do it yourself, or at least encourage & support those that do
It would appear that a bit of backbone and an independent mind are rare indeed. And, it's so easy to fight back these days. How much effort does it take to share a post on social media?

Far,far too many years of sitting around waiting for the NFU or some other monolith to act on your behalf has done terrible damage.
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
Image may contain: 1 person, smiling, text
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
and the article to back it up

Are you really a vegan? Farmer Matthew Evans says 'not possible'
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For every 75 hectares of peas, 1,500 animals die each year, including possums, wallabies, ducks and deer, not to mention rodents, writes Matthew Evans.

By Ian Horswill
Posted on July 9, 2019

Being vegan means you think that animals are not killed in the production of what you eat.
However Matthew Evans, a former food critic who now calls himself a gourmet farmer and restauranteur, says that notion is simply untrue.
In his new book, On Eating Meat: The Truth About Its Production And The Ethics Of Eating It, Evans writes the uncomfortable truth that animals die regardless of whether we choose to eat meat or not.
“It’s quite possible that eating less meat might mean less suffering. But don’t be fooled into thinking that being vegan hurts no animal,” Evans writes.
“When you eat, you’re never truly vegan. When humans grow and process food, any food, other things die.”
He says about 40,000 ducks are killed each year to protect rice production in Australia; that a billion mice are poisoned every year to protect wheat in Western Australia alone, and apple growers can kill up to 120 possums a year to protect their orchards.
“So a duck dying to protect a rice paddy for me is not much different to a cow dying to produce a steak,” Evans told ABC News.
Evans writes about a pea farm in Tasmania that produces 400 tonnes of peas and kills thousands of animals in the process. For every 75 hectares of peas, 1,500 animals die each year, including possums, wallabies, ducks and deer, not to mention rodents.
Plant-based meat, such as Beyond Meat's burgers comes at a cost to animals, argues Matthew Evans

There are 22 ingredients in a Beyond Meat patty.
“The owners assure me it wouldn’t be financially viable for them to grow peas without killing animals. Which means that every time we eat peas, farmers have controlled the “pest” species on our behalf, and animals have died in our name,” Evans writes.
This process is replicated at farm after farm all around the country.
“They are both animal deaths that happen in the name of us being able to eat,” he said.
“So there is nothing that we can do that doesn’t have an impact on animals.”
Evans estimates he kills close to 5,000 moths, slugs and snails each year in order to grow vegetables at Fat Pig Farm, his property in Tasmania.
A scientific analysis from the University of NSW used by Evans concludes that “25 times more sentient beings die to produce a kilo of protein from wheat than a kilo of protein from beef”.
Evans stressed he was making the point so that vegans are aware of the impact of their choices.

“If you want truly vegan agriculture, you’re going to have more fossil fuel emissions and in the process end up with more expensive food, poorer pollination and reduced variety thanks to the removal of domesticated bees,” Evans writes.
Vegan Australia spokesman Andy Faulkner told ABC News that he “fully concedes that” animals die in the production of crops.
He said it was all about scale: rearing animals requires all the impact of growing crops to feed them, with the added impact of then killing the animal for meat as well.
“We have a situation where it’s either minimising harm … or the next option is maximising harm,” he said.
“Vegans are aware of this. It’s about minimising impact.”
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
A good story these days is one that scares, shocks or discusts

Good news, positive stuff is none existent in modern media if you think about it

Back when I worked for Fonterra we had a talk from one of the big bosses. He'd been talking to a leading news reporter and asked, why they always wanted to talk about the negative side of the business and the things that went wrong instead of the good things like them giving free milk to all schools. The reply was along the lines of, no sorry no ones interested in that kind of story.
I think that's why they're never interested in talking about what they see to be the boring facts. Such as, we all need to eat.
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
and the article to back it up

Are you really a vegan? Farmer Matthew Evans says 'not possible'
AddThis Sharing Buttons
Share to FacebookFacebook321Share to TwitterTwitterShare to LinkedInLinkedIn

For every 75 hectares of peas, 1,500 animals die each year, including possums, wallabies, ducks and deer, not to mention rodents, writes Matthew Evans.

By Ian Horswill
Posted on July 9, 2019

Being vegan means you think that animals are not killed in the production of what you eat.
However Matthew Evans, a former food critic who now calls himself a gourmet farmer and restauranteur, says that notion is simply untrue.
In his new book, On Eating Meat: The Truth About Its Production And The Ethics Of Eating It, Evans writes the uncomfortable truth that animals die regardless of whether we choose to eat meat or not.
“It’s quite possible that eating less meat might mean less suffering. But don’t be fooled into thinking that being vegan hurts no animal,” Evans writes.
“When you eat, you’re never truly vegan. When humans grow and process food, any food, other things die.”
He says about 40,000 ducks are killed each year to protect rice production in Australia; that a billion mice are poisoned every year to protect wheat in Western Australia alone, and apple growers can kill up to 120 possums a year to protect their orchards.
“So a duck dying to protect a rice paddy for me is not much different to a cow dying to produce a steak,” Evans told ABC News.
Evans writes about a pea farm in Tasmania that produces 400 tonnes of peas and kills thousands of animals in the process. For every 75 hectares of peas, 1,500 animals die each year, including possums, wallabies, ducks and deer, not to mention rodents.
Plant-based meat, such as Beyond Meat's burgers comes at a cost to animals, argues Matthew Evans's burgers comes at a cost to animals, argues Matthew Evans

There are 22 ingredients in a Beyond Meat patty.
“The owners assure me it wouldn’t be financially viable for them to grow peas without killing animals. Which means that every time we eat peas, farmers have controlled the “pest” species on our behalf, and animals have died in our name,” Evans writes.
This process is replicated at farm after farm all around the country.
“They are both animal deaths that happen in the name of us being able to eat,” he said.
“So there is nothing that we can do that doesn’t have an impact on animals.”
Evans estimates he kills close to 5,000 moths, slugs and snails each year in order to grow vegetables at Fat Pig Farm, his property in Tasmania.
A scientific analysis from the University of NSW used by Evans concludes that “25 times more sentient beings die to produce a kilo of protein from wheat than a kilo of protein from beef”.
Evans stressed he was making the point so that vegans are aware of the impact of their choices.

“If you want truly vegan agriculture, you’re going to have more fossil fuel emissions and in the process end up with more expensive food, poorer pollination and reduced variety thanks to the removal of domesticated bees,” Evans writes.
Vegan Australia spokesman Andy Faulkner told ABC News that he “fully concedes that” animals die in the production of crops.
He said it was all about scale: rearing animals requires all the impact of growing crops to feed them, with the added impact of then killing the animal for meat as well.
“We have a situation where it’s either minimising harm … or the next option is maximising harm,” he said.
“Vegans are aware of this. It’s about minimising impact.”

I like that, assuming he has his facts correct of course.(y)
Something that makes you think 'I never thought of it that way' is more likely to get people thinking/talking than just repeating the same lines all the time, which people often have their own same set answers for.
 

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