100% spring cropping

An Gof · Jul 16, 2019

CORK said:
I guess the winter crop has more time to get over blips in the growing season.

If one has easily worked medium textured soil then there are loads of options whereas really light soils can be too light for winter wheat to finish properly.

My own view is that break crops are hugely beneficial, even if the only cereal you grow is spring barley.
Our current rotation here (the plan anyway!) is WOSR, WW, WW, S Barley, S Beans, WW, WW, W Barley, WOSR.

This keeps a good gap between rape crops and also between bean crops.
If one decides to bring in a break crop sooner then that’s ok too as it’ll be a different one from last time around.
Wheat will be seed and spring barley will be malting where possible.

We have some ground where spring beans might be a challenge to get sown on time but we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.

The above rotation should keep the goal posts moving from a grass weed point of view too.

Too many over here are going with a continuous winter barley rotation (or lack of) and I think it’s a disaster from a grass weed and yield point of view.

Interesting rotation. We couldn’t do that here.
2nd wheats are a complete waste of time and winter barley after 2 wheats would be a disaster.
We used to follow WW with WB but struggled for yield. We now follow WW with Winter Oats and then plant WB after the Oats. Added between 1/2t - 1t/acre to our barley yields.

Bogweevil · Jul 16, 2019

Flat 10 said:
Your constant doom mongering is wearing. Why not contribute something useful like what you are doing on your farm and why. I for one would be interested but spare me the Private Fraser impression. Thanks

Aw, don't be like that I like his gloom/doom makes me seem like a reasonable human being, maybe not.

Neddy flanders · Aug 17, 2019

@Banana Bar did you give this any further thought.
been thinking a lot about it here as feel it would drive a massive lifestyle change if nothing else.
some number crunching to do, but the thought of growing S Barley, S Beans and one other break with virtually zero inputs is appealing. whats more interesting is the fact that post harvest I would not have to tear arse about trying to establish OSR or try and drill wheat in the dark in November or spend zillions on flufenacet. a busy spring drilling would not clash with any other spring fert/ spraying. one or two spring sprays rather than 7 on winter wheat. food for though.

ollie989898 · Aug 17, 2019

Flat 10 said:
Don't bother. Unless we get some exceptionally cold weather it won't come on ear

Very much depends on the weather as you say and the breeding of the variety in question, in some varieties they have a fairly low vernalisation requirement and you will get away with it. Others, like the old fashioned winter wheats that sit on the ground like a bush all winter probably won't do anything.

ollie989898 · Aug 17, 2019

som farmer said:
I now only grow whole crop,( more cows), and am really looking at direct drill, or min til with our grass, maize, and whole crop, maize will cease with us, although we have combi drilled it, most amusing crop we have ever grown, walk 20 meters in, and you were completely lost (no drill lines).
we are reseeding a fair proportion of the farm each year, using forage rape as a break between grass, the cost of a full plough, reseed is large, and we think, with use of an aerator, and sward lifter, we could significantly reduce that cost,using a dd drill, or min till machine, and could boost a leys performance with dd pass, with 1/2 rate grass. this is an arable thread, but we treat our grass as an arable crop, so, when we mention this idea, why do we get the , ooh that won't work, or, do that and you will regret it ? there must be some using the system, our soils are good loams.

If you are a stock farm and are rotating crops around with grass, you should only need to plough once every few years if that. Plough up the grass, put in maize. Behind maize min-till the wheat. When the wheat is off, scratch/min-till in the grass. It's poetry and works well.

D14 · Aug 17, 2019

ollie989898 said:
If you are a stock farm and are rotating crops around with grass, you should only need to plough once every few years if that. Plough up the grass, put in maize. Behind maize min-till the wheat. When the wheat is off, scratch/min-till in the grass. It's poetry and works well.

Mycotoxins after maize in wheat is a big risk with min till. Got the t-shirt on that one so now plough and it’s no longer an issue.

David. · Aug 18, 2019

Neddy flanders said:
@Banana Bar did you give this any further thought.
been thinking a lot about it here as feel it would drive a massive lifestyle change if nothing else.
some number crunching to do, but the thought of growing S Barley, S Beans and one other break with virtually zero inputs is appealing. whats more interesting is the fact that post harvest I would not have to tear arse about trying to establish OSR or try and drill wheat in the dark in November or spend zillions on flufenacet. a busy spring drilling would not clash with any other spring fert/ spraying. one or two spring sprays rather than 7 on winter wheat. food for though.

This has its attractions, spraying 2 lots of 360 in varying degrees of autumn gales is losing its appeal really fast with me.
Added to that November drilling, more spraying in sub optimal conditions,
I suspect that 2.5t of spring barley may be more profitable than 3t of winter.

Neddy flanders · Aug 18, 2019

David. said:
This has its attractions, spraying 2 lots of 360 in varying degrees of autumn gales is losing its appeal really fast with me.
Added to that November drilling, more spraying in sub optimal conditions,
I suspect that 2.5t of spring barley may be more profitable than 3t of winter.

and imagine not having to re-invest all this years harvest cash into Agrii's or Yara's bank accounts.

Brisel · Aug 18, 2019

David. said:
I suspect that 2.5t of spring barley may be more profitable than 3t of winter.

That's not far from the truth. The spring is better for a weed problem but the performance is more volatile.

Banana Bar · Aug 23, 2019

Neddy flanders said:
@Banana Bar did you give this any further thought.
been thinking a lot about it here as feel it would drive a massive lifestyle change if nothing else.
some number crunching to do, but the thought of growing S Barley, S Beans and one other break with virtually zero inputs is appealing. whats more interesting is the fact that post harvest I would not have to tear arse about trying to establish OSR or try and drill wheat in the dark in November or spend zillions on flufenacet. a busy spring drilling would not clash with any other spring fert/ spraying. one or two spring sprays rather than 7 on winter wheat. food for though.

No, I haven’t been brave enough despite spring crops performing very well this year. The cash flow benefits would be enormous but only if I could achieve good spring yields every year.

DrWazzock · Aug 24, 2019

Farming with risk reduction.

Trying to establish OSR cheaply behind a subsoiler. If that doesn't work then we direct drill spring barley. Spring cropping gives you a second chance provided you haven't used adverse chemicals in the autumn. The subsoiler leaves the land ready for direct drilling in the spring after a quick spray off.

DrWazzock · Aug 24, 2019

We find spring barley is more profitable than winter. No big Autumn herbicide bills. No insectides. Light touch chemical, no growth regulator. Wouldn't even contemplate winter barley now. Modern spring barley varieties are fantastic.

Flat 10 · Aug 24, 2019

DrWazzock said:
We find spring barley is more profitable than winter. No big Autumn herbicide bills. No insectides. Light touch chemical, no growth regulator. Wouldn't even contemplate winter barley now. Modern spring barley varieties are fantastic.

Modern winter barley varieties are also fantastic . However they certainly cost more to grow than spring barley. I would say though cheaper to grow and higher yielding than second wheat

teslacoils · Aug 24, 2019

Winter barley is ace. Similar yield to wheat, get the land clear, better Vs blackgrass. Spring barley clashes with everything for me and seldom makes malting spec.

Brisel · Aug 24, 2019

I gave up winter barley as a 3rd cereal. Too much take all and the grass weeds loved the reduced herbicide options. I’m on light land so making malting is easier. Most years the spring barley gross and net margin is better than winter but it does clash on harvesting with wheat and can be variable. Non stop rain in March doesn’t discriminate on soil type - you’re not going drilling no matter what. The best yields around here seem to be from sowing late Feb/early March.

richard hammond · Aug 24, 2019

teslacoils said:
Winter barley is ace. Similar yield to wheat, get the land clear, better Vs blackgrass. Spring barley clashes with everything for me and seldom makes malting spec.

I am assuming hybrid type of winter barley with lots of N and Growth Reg!

ajd132 · Aug 24, 2019

richard hammond said:
I am assuming hybrid type of winter barley with lots of N and Growth Reg!

Expensive hybrid seed, full BG herbicide program, 200kgs N, 3 fungicide for hybrid winter barley yielding 8.5-9.5t, hides blackgrass but still leave a seed return.
Spring barley 7.5-8t ha, farm saved seed, one cheap broadleaf herbicide, 1 fungicide, 100kgs N.
This is on hanslope clay, it’s a no brainer for me.

richard hammond · Aug 24, 2019

ajd132 said:
Expensive hybrid seed, full BG herbicide program, 200kgs N, 3 fungicide for hybrid winter barley yielding 8.5-9.5t, hides blackgrass but still leave a seed return.
Spring barley 7.5-8t ha, farm saved seed, one cheap broadleaf herbicide, 1 fungicide, 100kgs N.
This is on hanslope clay, it’s a no brainer for me.

What ever suits please do. I have had clients do in excess of 10/ha with to be fair quite high costs but in these fields if they had been wheat in a "Normal" year they would have been a less than ideal yield. I still believe Hybrid Barley has its place,, I have also got to comment for this area 3.23 t/acre is a massive result in this year!!

Flat 10 · Aug 24, 2019

ajd132 said:
Expensive hybrid seed, full BG herbicide program, 200kgs N, 3 fungicide for hybrid winter barley yielding 8.5-9.5t, hides blackgrass but still leave a seed return.
Spring barley 7.5-8t ha, farm saved seed, one cheap broadleaf herbicide, 1 fungicide, 100kgs N.
This is on hanslope clay, it’s a no brainer for me.

I could retire on the profits I’d make on 7.5-8t/ha spring barley. To average that is outstanding

Flat 10 · Aug 24, 2019

And why would you grow any other crops????!!!! Spb CC spb CC rotation

100% spring cropping

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0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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