Miller and Major.........

FlyBy

Member
Here we going . The Scottish Courts now think they can stop Brexit. Up yours

Johnson apparently lied to the queen about the reasons for proroguing parliament. If Brexit is so reasonable a course of action, then why do its supporters keep having to break the law, twist the rules, and act like complete nutjobs just to make it happen?

This mess is almost certainly going to lead to a breakup of the union.
 

capfits

Member
Just imagine an election had been called and Labour won.
On the very first day of that new parliament Jeremy Corbyn elects to suspend parliament for the entirety of the fixed term.
Would that be on? Would his political opponents not take similar steps after much nashing of teeth?
I bet they would and that is why this case was taken to court in Scotland and by Gina Miller at al in England.

And as the affront that some have that has been suggested that a Scottish court has made this decision is some how an affront to United Kingdom legal system shows the failure of some to fail to understand that the law of England and Wales is not the only legal system in the united Kingdom
 
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yin ewe

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Co Antrim
Just imagine an election had been called and Labour won.
On the very first day of that new parliament Jeremy Corbyn elects to suspend parliament for the entirety of the fixed term.
Would that be on? Would his political opponents not take similar steps after much nashing of teeth?
I bet they would and that is why this case was taken to court in Scotland and by Gina Miller at al in England.

And as the affront that some have that has been suggested that a Scottish court has made this decision is some how an affront to United Kingdom legal system shows the fair of some to fail to understand that the law of England and Wales is not the only legal system in the united Kingdom

Are you seriously comparing a 5 week suspension, slightly longer than takes place every year, that doesn't even cover the time when a no deal could have been pushed through, to a 5 year suspension? I think that may be pushing it a bit.
 

capfits

Member
Are you seriously comparing a 5 week suspension, slightly longer than takes place every year, that doesn't even cover the time when a no deal could have been pushed through, to a 5 year suspension? I think that may be pushing it a bit.
I am not suggesting anything.
What the decision taken by the Prime Minister, and the paper trail leading up to it being presented to the cabinet and subsequently the Head of state, suggest that may actually be a possibility if the Prime Minister so wishes to avoid a prolonged period of parliamentary scrutiny.
The original petitioners may have seen this as being unlawful and in this instance the court looks to have agreed.
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Johnson apparently lied to the queen about the reasons for proroguing parliament. If Brexit is so reasonable a course of action, then why do its supporters keep having to break the law, twist the rules, and act like complete nutjobs just to make it happen?

This mess is almost certainly going to lead to a breakup of the union.
Hmm... those at the top of the side you support have not broken the law, but have changed the law - without a mandate - to avoid breaking it, very democratic. But they have twisted rules, and ignored others - courtesy of the Speaker - and acted like complete nutjobs by doing their damnedest to go against the will of a democratic majority.

I am not suggesting anything.
What the decision taken by the Prime Minister, and the paper trail leading up to it being presented to the cabinet and subsequently the Head of state, suggest that may actually be a possibility if the Prime Minister so wishes to avoid a prolonged period of parliamentary scrutiny.
The original petitioners may have seen this as being unlawful and in this instance the court looks to have agreed.
You did, the inference was clear, if you don't want to be accused of such things don't use hyperbole and post such ridiculous stuff. As for 'legal systems' in the UK, there is only one, but with separate jurisdictions within it.
 
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Widgetone

Member
Trade
Location
Westish Suffolk
Hmm... those at the top of the side you support have not broken the law, but have changed the law - without a mandate - to avoid breaking it, very democratic. But they have twisted rules, and ignored others - courtesy of the Speaker - and acted like complete nutjobs by doing their damnedest to go against the will of a democratic majority.


You did, the inference was clear, if you don't want to be accused of such things don't use hyperbole and post such ridiculous stuff. As for 'legal systems' in the UK, there is only one, but with separate jurisdictions within it.
And there lies the problem of a truly divided nation.
 

caveman

Member
Location
East Sussex.
Here's on for @Danllan

If article 50 is part of the EU communities act (?) , it must be covered by EU law, which I understand trumps UK law, making the new UK law compelling Boris to beg for an extension, at odds with article 50 itself?
 

FlyBy

Member
Hmm... those at the top of the side you support have not broken the law, but have changed the law - without a mandate - to avoid breaking it, very democratic. But they have twisted rules, and ignored others - courtesy of the Speaker - and acted like complete nutjobs by doing their damnedest to go against the will of a democratic majority.

There is no democratic mandate for a no deal Brexit. Efforts to stop that happening are both rational and in the public interest.

You can claim a democratic mandate for leaving certainly. Although its a pretty hypocritical position to find yourself in, if you're scared stiff of a second vote in case the public will might have changed.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
There is no democratic mandate for a no deal Brexit. Efforts to stop that happening are both rational and in the public interest.

You can claim a democratic mandate for leaving certainly. Although its a pretty hypocritical position to find yourself in, if you're scared stiff of a second vote in case the public will might have changed.
Is there a democratic mandate to make reaching a deal imperative? You people just make up the rules as you go along.
 
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Qman

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Near Derby
There is no democratic mandate for a no deal Brexit. Efforts to stop that happening are both rational and in the public interest.

You can claim a democratic mandate for leaving certainly. Although its a pretty hypocritical position to find yourself in, if you're scared stiff of a second vote in case the public will might have changed.

The question on the ballot paper was leave or stay, the majority voted to leave. If remain had won, would we be having another referendum now? Ha ha.

They daren't ask us again if we want to leave or stay, the next referendum will be, do you want Corbyn's rotten deal or remain.

The only hypocrites around are the MPs who were elected on a mandate to leave the EU and now have ratted on their promises.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
There is no democratic mandate for a no deal Brexit. Efforts to stop that happening are both rational and in the public interest.

You can claim a democratic mandate for leaving certainly. Although its a pretty hypocritical position to find yourself in, if you're scared stiff of a second vote in case the public will might have changed.
So now it is hypocritical to disagree with the call for a second referendum. In simple terms hypocritical means insincere. David Cameron called the first referendum, not any member of a leave campaign but those with an interest voted in good faith. Who is calling a second one? The people who lost the first of course. Why don`t you all get mummy to put the toys back in the pram and wheel you off into a dark corner. Insincere indeed.
 

capfits

Member
@acrobob
Is there a democratic mandate to make reaching a deal imperative? You people just make up the rules as you go along.
Have to say that the court has suggested at this time only the Prime Minister is "making up the rules" as you suggest.
That may of course change on Tuesday.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
Returning to the original thread, the two protagonists mentioned who are opposing the government are not without form. Major is well known for sacking party members who opposed him at the time of the Maastricht treaty. He called them "whipless people" . He then obtained a vote of confidence which he assumed gave him the right to to sign the treaty thus giving powers to and transferring our sovreignty to the EU without a public vote.
Gina Miller burst on the scene proclaiming that she was a qualified legal expert and a successful businesswoman. Neither of these facts were true. So here we have the new force behind the legal challenges that have driven us into stalemate. Boris may not be all things to all men and we may have reservations but I am convinced that he is far less toxic than the other two charlatans.
 

bluegreen

Member
Brexit represents the end of the old empire! The establishment or indeed the "old boys network" are fighting tooth and claw too overturn the democratically reached Leave vote. Projection is being widely used, that is accusing those you wish to discredit (Boris) of doing the exact thing (dirty tricks) that you are engaging in. And of course with a pro remain media the slant is continually given in the liberal lefts favour.

Now im beginning to get concerned that the next aim is to pee brexiteers off so much with this continual injustice and interruption that some lose their cool and resort to violence!! And you can be sure you know how that will be portrayed (UK media) with yet another election just round the corner.

What the old guard cant grasp is that their loss of power is part of a wider movement far more powerful than their ability to stop and reverse it. All empires come to an end, even the Great Roman one. I truly believe there is an unseen hand that intervenes and tips the balance against those who rule at critical moments in history and we are most definitely in those times now.
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
Brexit represents the end of the old empire! The establishment or indeed the "old boys network" are fighting tooth and claw too overturn the democratically reached Leave vote. Projection is being widely used, that is accusing those you wish to discredit (Boris) of doing the exact thing (dirty tricks) that you are engaging in. And of course with a pro remain media the slant is continually given in the liberal lefts favour.

Now im beginning to get concerned that the next aim is to pee brexiteers off so much with this continual injustice and interruption that some lose their cool and resort to violence!! And you can be sure you know how that will be portrayed (UK media) with yet another election just round the corner.

What the old guard cant grasp is that their loss of power is part of a wider movement far more powerful than their ability to stop and reverse it. All empires come to an end, even the Great Roman one. I truly believe there is an unseen hand that intervenes and tips the balance against those who rule at critical moments in history and we are most definitely in those times now.
A theory that I broadly subscribe to. History has repeated itself many times in the last 3000 years and will continue to do so. The trick is knowing when to leave the party before it really gets nasty. That times is now.
 

Agrivator

Member
The more concerted the efforts to discredit the Prime Minister, the more sympathy and support he will get from fair-minded people in the UK, if not in the wider world.

And can anyone point to where the Law on Prorogation of Parliament is written? Don't forget that even the highest Judge does not write the Law.

I personally feel that it was the PM's duty to stop the fanatical Remainers, including the 21 or more Tory or ex-Tory MPs, from doing any further damage in their appalling quest to overturn the Referendum result. I am now at the stage where I am willing to go to any lengths to support Boris and the others who are standing up for fair play and decency (Democracy).
 

bobk

Member
Location
stafford
As far as I'm aware there are no laws on prorogation ...... @Danllan , yet the scottish judges have adjudged there is , English judges have said no law gas been broken but have deferred the decision the the Supreme court .

Seems the scots have selected their judges very carefully for this case .............. roll f**kin eyes
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
As far as I'm aware there are no laws on prorogation ...... @Danllan , yet the scottish judges have adjudged there is , English judges have said no law gas been broken but have deferred the decision the the Supreme court .

Seems the scots have selected their judges very carefully for this case .............. roll fudgein eyes
I am no legal boffin but I thought a judge could only judge the facts and not validity of an opinion or intent. Sadly I lost faith in the legal system some time ago.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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