Meat: a threat to our planet.

Treg · Nov 26, 2019

Veganguy said:
I knew a programme of facts would anger you slave owners.

I have never seen so much ignorance in one place - though I would expect complete ignorance on this kind of forum.

It would be so funny if it wasn't such a serious topic.

Just been put off my breakfast, was then tucking into my bowl of crunchy nut cornflakes when I've read a report in the paper that twice the amount of animals are killed in producing crops for human consumption than are actually killed for eating!
Toast must be safe to eat...what! How come soya flour is in it? The most destructive crop in the world ...wait a minute can't have Soya milk either .
I'm hungry what can I eat ethically, perhaps chew some paper....Douh! That comes from cutting down the trees that help us breath clean air.
Really stuck on what I can eat now .

DaveGrohl · Nov 26, 2019

delilah said:
Vegan guy has his own thread running in Livestock, he has spent weeks avoiding those questions you've just asked him.

Yep he's decided to pollute this thread now too.

DaveGrohl · Nov 26, 2019

Just out of interest Veganguy, have you gone anywhere near the Joe Rogan/Chris Kresser podcast? I think your head might explode so maybe not eh? I didn't realise how following a strictly vegan diet can lead to serious health problems if you're not extremely careful and well-informed, something that most people don't have either the time or (in some cases) education/intelligence to manage.

S J H · Nov 26, 2019

Veganguy said:
Also funny you want to talk about 'force' when you force many animals into an appalling live and death.

The brass neck of people like you attempting to play the victim.

Pot. Kettle.

Still Farming · Nov 26, 2019

The Laboratory product in programme, how green would that be.
I would imagine it would need massive buildings ,staff (associated housing,travelling, wastes etc with living and commuting), chemicals ,ELECTRIC or energy to grow it , plastics or mediums to sell ,distribution ,retail etc etc ,so would have a large carbon footprint and it would have effects on climate change by its nature, logistics and volumes to feed the World ?
They show it CAN be done BUT don't show the implications and impacts it would have.

The show ,used bread crumbs on product (will they grow synthetic corn also?) then fried in an oil (chip pan type fryer) so what was oil ?(oilseed rape ,Palm oil etc.)where is that from or produced???
Electricity to cook make from where/fossil/ nuclear/gas????

The BIG picture is required?
They can discredit current methods but only show or say partial" what if's"?????

Brisel · Nov 26, 2019

Veganguy said:
A loud obnoxious narrow minded American is never going to admit to being wrong and accept the facts as Donald Trump proves.

The American scientist who worked for the beef association was never going to agree with Liz, was she? That was carefully selected editing to produce the view of the creator of the programme. It worked - it has got everyone talking about it.

You're welcome to join the debate, but angry personal insults won't get you any engagement. You're in a farming forum, so are outnumbered by farmers. You knew that, of course.

ISCO · Nov 26, 2019

Just heard Stuart Roberts from NFU on 5 live radio being interviewed by Nicky Campbell along with someone from Vegan society. He spoke very well (As he always does) and got all of relevant facts in and, I would say won the argument easily.
Nicky Campbell did provide a fair debate questioning the vegan lady on palm oil etc.

Veganguy · Nov 26, 2019

ISCO said:
Nicky Campbell did provide a fair debate questioning the vegan lady on palm oil etc.

Did Nicky Cambell also question the farmer?

rhsmyth · Nov 26, 2019

I watched the show with an open mind but even I was close to throwing a brick at the telly.

It really was an unbalanced piece of journalism, hypocritical and simply misleading. I fully accept that what is happening in Brazil is shocking but the Brazilian government is supporting it so I’d suggest it is a political problem not a vegan one.

I happen to watch a food unwrapped program last week on similar topics and it was certainly more balanced than this.

Complain direct to the BBC. It is a public organisation and we all pay a fee.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints

Sid · Nov 26, 2019

I haven't seen the programme but sounds like the programme should be renamed, imported meat:a threat to our planet.

JCMaloney · Nov 26, 2019

A programme telling consumers that certain aspects of industrial agriculture aren`t sustainable yet not giving a sensible balanced alternative other than "stop eating meat".
What 99% of viewers will not consider is the deeper link between that and their desire for cheap food.
Then factor in the global demand for "meat alternatives" that are equally unsustainable and you have a clusterfudge of epic scale thanks to humans & money.

Eat local, eat seasonal and you can still eat cheaply!

Sid · Nov 26, 2019

JCMaloney said:
A programme telling consumers that certain aspects of industrial agriculture aren`t sustainable yet not giving a sensible balanced alternative other than "stop eating meat".
What 99% of viewers will not consider is the deeper link between that and their desire for cheap food.
Then factor in the global demand for "meat alternatives" that are equally unsustainable and you have a clusterfudge of epic scale thanks to humans & money.

Eat local, eat seasonal and you can still eat cheaply!

And eat for less is another BBC classic, doesn't matter about province or environment just eat cheap. Oh and with the money you save you can buy a better quality bottle of wine because that's more important!

ISCO · Nov 26, 2019

Veganguy said:
Did Nicky Cambell also question the farmer?

He did yes.
I make the point as BBC have been accused of bias against farming which is true but not in this case.

Henarar · Nov 26, 2019

DaveGrohl said:
Just out of interest Veganguy, have you gone anywhere near the Joe Rogan/Chris Kesser podcast? I think your head might explode so maybe not eh? I didn't realise how following a strictly vegan diet can lead to serious health problems if you're not extremely careful and well-informed, something that most people don't have either the time or (in some cases) education/intelligence to manage.

would normally say don't feed the Troll but he could probably do with a decent meal

Pieces_of_Eight · Nov 26, 2019

rhsmyth said:
I fully accept that what is happening in Brazil is shocking but the Brazilian government is supporting it so I’d suggest it is a political problem not a vegan one.

It's an economic problem.

People the world over, from Bedford to Beijing, want cheap food.

Emerging economies that can produce the cheap food are only emerging because they can export that food around the world.

If everybody stopped buying food grown in the tropics, the rainforest would be saved overnight.

But it won't happen, because people wan't fruit, veg & meat all year round as cheaply as possible.

Danllan · Nov 26, 2019

Veganguy said:
I knew a programme of facts would anger you slave owners.

I have never seen so much ignorance in one place - though I would expect complete ignorance on this kind of forum.

It would be so funny if it wasn't such a serious topic.

Obviously a wee bit of trolling there, but it's par for the course on the net from both sides of any argument.

That written, I'd have thought that you would be keen on the natural way of things, aren't you?

primmiemoo · Nov 26, 2019

Veganguy said:
I knew a programme of facts would anger you slave owners.

I have never seen so much ignorance in one place - though I would expect complete ignorance on this kind of forum.

It would be so funny if it wasn't such a serious topic.

There were fewer facts than I'd hoped there would be. The methane cycle was not mentioned, and neither was the way that healthy soils under grasslands draw in and store carbon from the air. Basic facts that the presenter should know from her professional background.

Nothing said about inadequate anti-pollution laws in the USA - shocking footage of pollution from slurry. Without regulations, what does the presenter think will happen?

Nothing said about Cerrado destroyed to grow soya for human consumption - shocking how the increase in use of soya in human diets has laid waste to a complex and beautiful environment that was used for pastoral beef production until fairly recently.
Clearly, recent ploughing up of Argentinian Pampas to grow soya for human food, and displacement of pasture grown beef cattle is of no interest, either.

Anyway, it clearly made a handful of gloaty vegans as happy as a box of frogs.

primmiemoo · Nov 26, 2019

Sid said:
And eat for less is another BBC classic, doesn't matter about province or environment just eat cheap. Oh and with the money you save you can buy a better quality bottle of wine because that's more important!

That programme is a deeply cynical re-enforcement of the economic norms of a slice of the population who don't know the difference between buying the best you can afford, and buying the cheapest.
It's nothing to be proud of.

Hampton · Nov 26, 2019

primmiemoo said:
There were fewer facts than I'd hoped there would be. The methane cycle was not mentioned, and neither was the way that healthy soils under grasslands draw in and store carbon from the air. Basic facts that the presenter should know from her professional background.

Nothing said about inadequate anti-pollution laws in the USA - shocking footage of pollution from slurry. Without regulations, what does the presenter think will happen?

Nothing said about Cerrado destroyed to grow soya for human consumption - shocking how the increase in use of soya in human diets has laid waste to a complex and beautiful environment that was used for pastoral beef production until fairly recently.
Clearly, recent ploughing up of Argentinian Pampas to grow soya for human food, and displacement of pasture grown beef cattle is of no interest, either.

Anyway, it clearly made a handful of gloaty vegans as happy as a box of frogs.

The protein ratio does come into play there though does it not? Clearly soya currently grown for animal feed could be used directly for humans, although then the animals wouldn’t be around to eat the hulls and other by products.
In fact, by products wasn’t touched in any way. Nothing about citrus pulp, soya hulls, wheatfeed, beet pulp, biscuit meal, bread, distillers grains, pot ale to name but a few
Seems like I have just destroyed my own argument!!

Top Tip. · Nov 26, 2019

Did anyone else notice that when they went into the fake meat factory they were told to switch the cameras off ,why? What were they trying to hide,there was no such rules when she went on farm the farmers weren’t hiding their production processes.

Meat: a threat to our planet.

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