Tine Direct Drills

I am thinking of heading down the tine direct drill route. Currently running a Lemkin power harrow drill combo and it is a fantastic bit of kit, but looking to be able to at least direct drill rape and cover crops and maybe cereals too. Our land is a free draining loam that is very forgiving to work. We take the straw off the fields too.
Currently like the look of the Weaving Sabre Tine, probably the 4.8m, but of course there are others - Horsch, Dale, etc..
We have two Case Puma tractors, 160 and 165, plenty of lift and grunt for their size but we do have slopes.
Any opinions/advice appreciated.

We have been long term users of combi drills mostly in a min till cultivation strategy, but have just taken the plunge into the world of direct drilling with the delivery of a new weaving sabre tine 6m for this season, nothing comes close in terms of affordability and build quality in my opinion, we have done a small amount with it and very impressed, I’d say for your tractor size stick with around a 4m model the 6m is a big lump, just deal direct with weaving great family firm.
 

Farmer Piles

Member
Location
Cornwall
Drill choice is only a very small part of the equation.

Are your soils ready for DD? Are you prepared to accept a yield penalty for a few years if not? What are your soil organic matter levels? Are you adding any organic matter or cover crops? Is your rotation suitable for DD? Are you prepared to introduce spring crops, if not grown already? Etc. Etc.

Just playing devils advocate but all are relevant questions.
Not really looking to go whole hog down the no till route. On both occasions that we tried the Claydon we were underwhelmed. We have 40ac of spuds and about the same in winter cauliflower moving around the farm as well. It is more of a case of having a tine drill to add capacity and an alternative to the powerharrow drill combo. Having the direct drill capability is more about options going forward and versatility, plus sowing cover crops and forage rape into stubbles. If we are spending a good sum on a drill it figures to have as many options as possible.
It could be that we need to increase the soil organic matter before we head down the total no till route. We are addressing that, we are planting cover crops and we now have 50 head of beef.
Very interesting article in Arable Farmer about soils and the biome.
 

Farmer Piles

Member
Location
Cornwall
We have been long term users of combi drills mostly in a min till cultivation strategy, but have just taken the plunge into the world of direct drilling with the delivery of a new weaving sabre tine 6m for this season, nothing comes close in terms of affordability and build quality in my opinion, we have done a small amount with it and very impressed, I’d say for your tractor size stick with around a 4m model the 6m is a big lump, just deal direct with weaving great family firm.
Interesting. We like the look of the Weaving. Thinking the 4.8m, so good to see that you echo that.
 

Warnesworth

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Chipping Norton
Lots of Dale and Horsch users in here. @Warnesworth only likes tine drills and he does know plenty about DD. With straw baled, a tine will do well.
Thanks @Brisel, slightly misquoted which I shall now correct;

I believe you need to both a tine and a disc drill to follow a Conservation Ag system well, and achieve consistently good results; but the tine drill should be the first purchase and remain the default drill.

Too many are swayed by the minimal disturbance of a disc drill at the expense of good crop establishment etc. This is especially noticeable this autumn when a disc drill should have remained in the shed at all times.
The disc drill is important for drilling into cover crops etc but it has massive limitations which a narrow tine drill will mostly overcome.
 

Warnesworth

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Chipping Norton
I am thinking of heading down the tine direct drill route. Currently running a Lemkin power harrow drill combo and it is a fantastic bit of kit, but looking to be able to at least direct drill rape and cover crops and maybe cereals too. Our land is a free draining loam that is very forgiving to work. We take the straw off the fields too.
Currently like the look of the Weaving Sabre Tine, probably the 4.8m, but of course there are others - Horsch, Dale, etc..
We have two Case Puma tractors, 160 and 165, plenty of lift and grunt for their size but we do have slopes.
Any opinions/advice appreciated.
The Sabre tine is heavy and has no packer wheel, it also has poor trash flow I'm reliably informed.
As @Clive says an Horsch CO is an excellent introductory drill (cheap) when coupled with some retrofit points such as Dutch, Borgault or JJ Metcalfe. Loads of options out there.

Dale is a good drill and have independent vertical depth control which neither the Sabre tine or the Horsch have.

Your HP will cope easily with a 4 or 6m Horsch on narrow tines.

A Claydon is a strip-till drill, it moves far too much soil if moving to a genuine CA system.
 
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nick...

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
south norfolk
I still fail to see how a tine based drill like a dale,Claydon or even a modified horsch mentioned about coukd work in a lot of trash.ive got some wild bird mix areas that are a mass of vegetation about 2ft high and some flattened and none of the above woukd work without blocking.i saw one of the above at cereals demo site working in mustard cover and it was blocking continually to the extent a man i was standing next too said his vaddy rapid would work better than that.im sure they are ok on stubble but must work everywhere.do any of the above fit a disc that would cure these problems.i coukd not see these drills working in conditions like @Clive has posted his new horsch working in.
Nick...
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I still fail to see how a tine based drill like a dale,Claydon or even a modified horsch mentioned about coukd work in a lot of trash.ive got some wild bird mix areas that are a mass of vegetation about 2ft high and some flattened and none of the above woukd work without blocking.i saw one of the above at cereals demo site working in mustard cover and it was blocking continually to the extent a man i was standing next too said his vaddy rapid would work better than that.im sure they are ok on stubble but must work everywhere.do any of the above fit a disc that would cure these problems.i coukd not see these drills working in conditions like @Clive has posted his new horsch working in.
Nick...

tine drills won’t deal with proper cover crops you are right - if i could only own one drill that’s is why it would be a disc based machine

however tines do have other advantages like being better when wet and not hair-pining - with enough stagger and wide enough row spacing they can cope with a reasonable amount of trash
 

juke

Member
Location
DURHAM
tine drills won’t deal with proper cover crops you are right - if i could only own one drill that’s is why it would be a disc based machine

however tines do have other advantages like being better when wet and not hair-pining - with enough stagger and wide enough row spacing they can cope with a reasonable amount of trash


What do you class as a proper cover @Clive ?
Our Claydon has manged not to bad In some thick tall mixtures , both sprayed off and drilled on the green.
 

juke

Member
Location
DURHAM
bonnet high multi species, sunflowers in head etc, I‘m not sure any tine drill can deal with that kind of trash level
Haven't done it with sunflowers but have been into big multi species bonnet high covers with the Claydon , leading disc makes all the difference. I do conceed the disc drill will move alot less n leave the armour alot more intact .
 

nick...

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
south norfolk
Haven't done it with sunflowers but have been into big multi species bonnet high covers with the Claydon , leading disc makes all the difference. I do conceed the disc drill will move alot less n leave the armour alot more intact .
Do you have a leading disc in place of the front tine or as well as front tine.
Nick...
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
If Claydon can put a disc instead of the leading tine, could SimTech make a leading tine instead of the disc?

That would require strengthening the mounting points for the disc/ tine assemblies on the Sim Tech. Easier when you've started with beefier engineering for the tine and can swap to a lower draught disc by removing one pin.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
I still fail to see how a tine based drill like a dale,Claydon or even a modified horsch mentioned about coukd work in a lot of trash.ive got some wild bird mix areas that are a mass of vegetation about 2ft high and some flattened and none of the above woukd work without blocking.i saw one of the above at cereals demo site working in mustard cover and it was blocking continually to the extent a man i was standing next too said his vaddy rapid would work better than that.im sure they are ok on stubble but must work everywhere.do any of the above fit a disc that would cure these problems.i coukd not see these drills working in conditions like @Clive has posted his new horsch working in.
Nick...

This is my dilemma. I want to move from a Claydon to no till but the Claydon has no seed depth control which is critical with no tilth. I've yet to come across a single person who is using a tine drill to sow cash crops into chopped barley straw regularly. I tried it with the leading tine on the Claydon and it nearly broke us waiting for the hottest weather just so it would flow through the drill. All the tine drill users have to bale the straw first.

You've still got hair pinning worries with a disc drill but row cleaners have reduced this problem a fair bit.
 

nick...

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
south norfolk
This is my dilemma. I want to move from a Claydon to no till but the Claydon has no seed depth control which is critical with no tilth. I've yet to come across a single person who is using a tine drill to sow cash crops into chopped barley straw regularly. I tried it with the leading tine on the Claydon and it nearly broke us waiting for the hottest weather just so it would flow through the drill. All the tine drill users have to bale the straw first.

You've still got hair pinning worries with a disc drill but row cleaners have reduced this problem a fair bit.
I like the look of the Claydon and still waiting to see one working but they have been in touch unlike most of the others.i understand the Claydon front tine leaves a slot or loosened ground to aid drainage and leave loose ground for roots to easily penetrate.i think with a disc on the front would be perfect enabling drilling in any or most conditions.unfortuantly on a mounted drill this would add weight and may move weight further back.ive got a few bits like picture which is wild bird seed mix full of most things.even though it would be regularly drilled in to that type of vegetation im imagining cover crops could be equally hard to drill into and I could not see a tine drill working in that.a disc drill woukd obviously work ok in that but be been told by agronomists that some of our heavy land would not suit disc drills and I’d be concerned drilling after tracked combine and grain trailers have sunk in during harvest,not allways I admit but can’t have differant machine for differant situations.what a dilemma
Nick...
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